Larry's AC50 Circus

[Lakrass]

Is a team defined by its legal entity or also the people composing it? For instance if the brit enter the F50 circuit under Team Ineos (without UK), have a specific technical team separate from AC but still use the same sailors.

I don't see how this would break the rule. It really feels like that rule is more for dissuasion than anything else.

On another note since F50 will basically be one design it won't learn AC teams a lot on a platform they know pretty well already. And I don't think any AC team will be tempted by F50 circuit, it risks to divert from the main effort and you file in a team composed from AC sailors, the expectation would be that they crush the competition since they should know how to sail those boats. Anything but wins will hurt their reputation.

 

[A Class Sailor]

... and you file in a team composed from AC sailors, the expectation would be that they crush the competition since they should know how to sail those boats. Anything but wins will hurt their reputation.

Did you look at who are said to be sailing these boats? Artemis will have a team of AC sailors with Outeridge and Percy, Tom Slingsby will also have a team of AC sailors, as will others. 

 

[Indio]

Is a team defined by its legal entity or also the people composing it? For instance if the brit enter the F50 circuit under Team Ineos (without UK), have a specific technical team separate from AC but still use the same sailors.

I don't see how this would break the rule. It really feels like that rule is more for dissuasion than anything else.

On another note since F50 will basically be one design it won't learn AC teams a lot on a platform they know pretty well already. And I don't think any AC team will be tempted by F50 circuit, it risks to divert from the main effort and you file in a team composed from AC sailors, the expectation would be that they crush the competition since they should know how to sail those boats. Anything but wins will hurt their reputation.

A team is the legal entity such as ETNZ. Employees of the entity will be subject to the qualifications spelled out in the Protocol governing nationality, residency, etc. If there are restrictions on participating in "competing" regattas, it's the entity that must comply. The entity's employer-employee relationship at the time of participating in a "competing" regatta will be determined by the AC Jury. But I imagine that any normal employer-employee relationship where the employer is liable for any action undertaken by the employee will apply.

 

[dogwatch]

Did you look at who are said to be sailing these boats? Artemis will have a team of AC sailors with Outeridge and Percy, Tom Slingsby will also have a team of AC sailors, as will others. 

That would be former AC sailors.

 

[agk470]

My understanding is Artemis are out, and a Japanese team and Chinese team are going to take the last 2 boats. 

my guess is 

USA - rome kirby 

UK - giles scott or Leigh Mcmillan 

France - frank cammas or  billy besson 

Japan - nathan outteridge

chinese -  pete burling or jason Waterhouse

australia - tom slingsby

 

[Tornado-Cat]

A team is the legal entity such as ETNZ. Employees of the entity will be subject to the qualifications spelled out in the Protocol governing nationality, residency, etc. If there are restrictions on participating in "competing" regattas, it's the entity that must comply. The entity's employer-employee relationship at the time of participating in a "competing" regatta will be determined by the AC Jury. But I imagine that any normal employer-employee relationship where the employer is liable for any action undertaken by the employee will apply.

The simple world of Indio.

- The AC legal entity is the YC

- The competitor in this protocol = challenger or Defender

- The challenger = the YC + chosen team

- The Team is not a comptetitor until chosen by the YC

- The sailor is not part of the team until hired

- A contract does not necessarily obliges the crew to sail for one team only

It's true that the jury are only decided by defender-challenger, but, if that the problem happens, do they want to eliminate one of the only remaining competitor of this AC ?

So why do you focus on the entry period ? it's worth about nothing in the debate.

 

[2Newts]

My understanding is Artemis are out, and a Japanese team and Chinese team are going to take the last 2 boats. 

my guess is 

USA - rome kirby 

UK - giles scott or Leigh Mcmillan 

France - frank cammas or  billy besson 

Japan - nathan outteridge

chinese -  pete burling or jason Waterhouse

australia - tom slingsby

do you have any source(s) for this? or simply speculating?

 

[Rennmaus]

SegelReporter writes that Russel Coutts is responsible for the organization of Larry's series:

https://segelreporter.com/regatta/americas-cup-alternative-neue-rennserie-mit-alten-foiler-katamaranen-ellison-macht-ernst/

Was this already posted and/or confirmed?

 

[Stingray~]

SegelReporter writes that Russel Coutts is responsible for the organization of Larry's series:

https://segelreporter.com/regatta/americas-cup-alternative-neue-rennserie-mit-alten-foiler-katamaranen-ellison-macht-ernst/

Was this already posted and/or confirmed?

It’s been suggested elsewhere too but my take on it is that LE asked RC what he should do next, and RC pointed him in this direction. With his own boat building facility available and a bunch of already-built hardware and design IP, it made sense and was an easy Yes for LE, but it made Core have to ramp up big-time.

 

[barfy]

i thought it was confirmed he was keen to run the manly club?

maybe $$$$$$$ changed his mind? again?

 

[Forourselves]

Seems Russell is busy with his Sailing Club. A lot of the time, especially if you're as high profile as Coutts is, a role like his, as not only Commodore of the Club, but also a role model for the kids requires 100% devotion. Hard to see that he can devote 100% of his time to the Sailing Club, his Sailing foundation, as well as building a global circuit of AC50's.

 

[Stingray~]

Seems Russell is busy with his Sailing Club. A lot of the time, especially if you're as high profile as Coutts is, a role like his, as not only Commodore of the Club, but also a role model for the kids requires 100% devotion. Hard to see that he can devote 100% of his time to the Sailing Club, his Sailing foundation, as well as building a global circuit of AC50's.

RC likely gave just a suggested direction to LE, about what LE could spend his next few hundred million dollars on for the sport of sailing.

LE agreed, all good.

 

[rh3000]

RC likely gave just a suggested direction to LE, about what LE could spend his next few hundred million dollars on for the sport of sailing.

LE agreed, all good.

I suspect there was already an F50-like plan for the next AC before the Bermuda outcome, and when the cup disappeared, LE and RC sat down and discussed how to proceed with the plan, albeit without the cup. Logistically it's relatively easy, you just need to re-scope some budgets assuming the coverage & interest would be less (how much TBD) and figure out where to get cash to cover any holes (hint hint LE's back pocket).

Only question remains is that IMHO the currently speculated version of F50 still warrants a full-time gig, and I'm not sure how RC could commit to running F50 whilst still doing the other things he has said he's committed to. He also said he was done with AC - to what extent is the F50 the same thing in terms of impact on RC's life? I'd assume the same right? Feels odd, maybe he's realised he still wants to do "it".

 

[Stingray~]

I suspect there was already an F50-like plan for the next AC before the Bermuda outcome, and when the cup disappeared, LE and RC sat down and discussed how to proceed with the plan, albeit without the cup. Logistically it's relatively easy, you just need to re-scope some budgets assuming the coverage & interest would be less (how much TBD) and figure out where to get cash to cover any holes (hint hint LE's back pocket).

Only question remains is that IMHO the currently speculated version of F50 still warrants a full-time gig, and I'm not sure how RC could commit to running F50 whilst still doing the other things he has said he's committed to. He also said he was done with AC - to what extent is the F50 the same thing in terms of impact on RC's life? I'd assume the same right? Feels odd, maybe he's realised he still wants to do "it".

Clean suggested it was already in the works ‘15 months ago’ and so yes, predating AC35 and not even contingent on who might win. 

That thinking might also suggest a ‘higher’ plane view, beyond just AC issues. Money had little to do with any of the larger plan, quite obviously.

It’s a bit like the Indian Wells facility that TE recently drew an analogy to. Hundreds of millions sunk into facilities for another sport LE loves, and now a very hot item on the international tennis championships calendar. Is it intended to upstage Wimbledon? No, why on earth would that be the intent? It simply enriches the sport.

 

[Forourselves]

Clean suggested it was already in the works ‘15 months ago’ and so yes, predating AC35 and not even contingent on who might win. 

That thinking might also suggest a ‘higher’ plane view, beyond just AC issues. Money had little to do with any of the larger plan, quite obviously.

It’s a bit like the Indian Wells facility that TE recently drew an analogy to. Hundreds of millions sunk into facilities for another sport LE loves, and now a very hot item on the international tennis championships calendar. Is it intended to upstage Wimbledon? No, why on earth would that be the intent? It simply enriches the sport.

If it was suggested 15 months ago, then it was probably contingent somewhat on the Framework Agreement signed between the teams who were present at that time. Since then, two have disbanded, one has "gone dark", another is struggling for money and sponsorship, all of which have been raided by current AC teams for talent, and the other two have committed to an Americas Cup campaign which by many peoples presumptions is much more expensive than the previous cycle. 

The difference between Tennis and the Americas Cup, is one is a mainstream sport, which has a vast and sustainable talent pool to draw from, big, household names, isn't reliant on sponsorship, and has a certain future. The other has become a rich mans sport which has a reputation which is damaged and tarnished and has a small talent pool to draw from with no clear path for younger talent to compete, and is still heavily reliant on Multimillionaire or Billionaire backers and has a pinnacle event (much like Tennis's Wimbledon) which will always, by virtue of its governing document, have an uncertain future.

 

[Kiwing]

I love the thought that RC and LE planned the follow on event (thinking they were going to win?).  No doubt most of the framework group thought one of them was going to win, too.

Makes ETNZ's taking the cup all the more sweet.

 

[Tornado-Cat]

I love the thought that RC and LE planned the follow on event (thinking they were going to win?).  No doubt most of the framework group thought one of them was going to win, too.

Makes ETNZ's taking the cup all the more sweet.

In these kind of event, like marketing campaigns with a sports team, the financial success is not tied to a win, they plan their ROI whatever the result.

 

[Forourselves]

Any news in this neck of the woods?

 

[bad sandwhich]

There is a UK team

spoke to one of the employees of the shore/admin team and they are just getting going, like, in the last month.

Skipper is a Brit - it is not Giles Scott or Leigh Mac.

I imagine that they'll have someone to race against so the other teams probably only just getting going too.

 

[Forourselves]

There is a UK team

spoke to one of the employees of the shore/admin team and they are just getting going, like, in the last month.

Skipper is a Brit - it is not Giles Scott or Leigh Mac.

I imagine that they'll have someone to race against so the other teams probably only just getting going too.

Okay. If its a UK team, it has nothing what so ever to do with INEOS Team UK. That much is certain.