Larry's AC50 Circus

A Class Sailor

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970
127
On the water
It seems the modification plans for the boats are well under way. They are all getting one design foils which will be controlled by a mix of a computer system and the crew with rake will be powered by batteries so there will only be 2 people on grinders. The one design foils are an onward development designed to make the boats significantly faster than they were with a suggest that they wouldn't meet the old AC50 rule, which doesn't matter as they will be one design.  The aim is to be significantly over 50 knots downwind. Wing trim and adjustments will all be made by ropes and the crew, which is why they will have less grinders, because the crew will be needed to sail the boat.

Larry and Tornqvist are funding the project, but Bertarelli is out because Larry and him have had (another) big argument. That doesn't matter because they have more teams wanting to do it than they have boats. Names such as Outteridge, Slingsby, Ainslie, Cammas and Draper are in with others expected to join, but not anybody from ETNZ or LR. That is seen as their loss, not a loss to the series. Ian Murray running the racing side of things with Coutts overall series CEO.

Venues can be chosen for the best sailing as crowds are not important. TV already lined up which was easier to sell than the AC because it could be packaged better without the need to be live. Events will not be 2 days like the WS but will be long enough to try to protect from poor weather.

It's happening. It will have many big names. It will be fleet sailing, the racing will be a lot closer than in the AC and it will be faster. It will not be the AC, but who cares. It will be the most spectacular racing we have ever seen. The fact the b oats will be significantly faster than in cup mode stops all comments about the fastest AC50 not being there, because the ETNZ will be slower than the revised boats.

Is it being done out of spite and the act of a bad loser? Maybe if it was just Larry, but I don't believe Tornqvist plays like that. He is in it because he loves the boats and the potential. Others want to do it because the boats are so special. Coutts is doing it because this is what he has said he wanted over 10 years ago, outside of the AC, so he has the chance to prove his vision for a non AC pro tour in the fastest boats can work. Some ETNZ fanboys will hate, but there is no rational reason to do so as it isn't the AC and doesn't threaten the AC. Is it JAR? Maybe, but it is one I will pay to see.

 

rh3000

Super Anarchist
3,693
1,725
Auckland, New Zealand
It seems the modification plans for the boats are well under way. They are all getting one design foils which will be controlled by a mix of a computer system and the crew with rake will be powered by batteries so there will only be 2 people on grinders. The one design foils are an onward development designed to make the boats significantly faster than they were with a suggest that they wouldn't meet the old AC50 rule, which doesn't matter as they will be one design.  The aim is to be significantly over 50 knots downwind. Wing trim and adjustments will all be made by ropes and the crew, which is why they will have less grinders, because the crew will be needed to sail the boat.

Larry and Tornqvist are funding the project, but Bertarelli is out because Larry and him have had (another) big argument. That doesn't matter because they have more teams wanting to do it than they have boats. Names such as Outteridge, Slingsby, Ainslie, Cammas and Draper are in with others expected to join, but not anybody from ETNZ or LR. That is seen as their loss, not a loss to the series. Ian Murray running the racing side of things with Coutts overall series CEO.

Venues can be chosen for the best sailing as crowds are not important. TV already lined up which was easier to sell than the AC because it could be packaged better without the need to be live. Events will not be 2 days like the WS but will be long enough to try to protect from poor weather.

It's happening. It will have many big names. It will be fleet sailing, the racing will be a lot closer than in the AC and it will be faster. It will not be the AC, but who cares. It will be the most spectacular racing we have ever seen. The fact the b oats will be significantly faster than in cup mode stops all comments about the fastest AC50 not being there, because the ETNZ will be slower than the revised boats.

Is it being done out of spite and the act of a bad loser? Maybe if it was just Larry, but I don't believe Tornqvist plays like that. He is in it because he loves the boats and the potential. Others want to do it because the boats are so special. Coutts is doing it because this is what he has said he wanted over 10 years ago, outside of the AC, so he has the chance to prove his vision for a non AC pro tour in the fastest boats can work. Some ETNZ fanboys will hate, but there is no rational reason to do so as it isn't the AC and doesn't threaten the AC. Is it JAR? Maybe, but it is one I will pay to see.
Great so it's the sailing equivalent of the Reno Air Races... enjoy!

Agree that these new boats won't be AC50s, rightfully preserving ETNZ as the fastest AC50 forever.

And also agree with you that this isn't the AC, so best you open a new thread at Multihull Anarchy ;-)

 

nav

Super Anarchist
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569
It seems the modification plans for the boats are well under way. They are all getting one design foils which will be controlled by a mix of a computer system and the crew with rake will be powered by batteries so there will only be 2 people on grinders. The one design foils are an onward development designed to make the boats significantly faster than they were with a suggest that they wouldn't meet the old AC50 rule, which doesn't matter as they will be one design.  The aim is to be significantly over 50 knots downwind. Wing trim and adjustments will all be made by ropes and the crew, which is why they will have less grinders, because the crew will be needed to sail the boat.

Larry and Tornqvist are funding the project, but Bertarelli is out because Larry and him have had (another) big argument. That doesn't matter because they have more teams wanting to do it than they have boats. Names such as Outteridge, Slingsby, Ainslie, Cammas and Draper are in with others expected to join, but not anybody from ETNZ or LR. That is seen as their loss, not a loss to the series. Ian Murray running the racing side of things with Coutts overall series CEO.

Venues can be chosen for the best sailing as crowds are not important. TV already lined up which was easier to sell than the AC because it could be packaged better without the need to be live. Events will not be 2 days like the WS but will be long enough to try to protect from poor weather.

It's happening. It will have many big names. It will be fleet sailing, the racing will be a lot closer than in the AC and it will be faster. It will not be the AC, but who cares. It will be the most spectacular racing we have ever seen. The fact the b oats will be significantly faster than in cup mode stops all comments about the fastest AC50 not being there, because the ETNZ will be slower than the revised boats.

Is it being done out of spite and the act of a bad loser? Maybe if it was just Larry, but I don't believe Tornqvist plays like that. He is in it because he loves the boats and the potential. Others want to do it because the boats are so special. Coutts is doing it because this is what he has said he wanted over 10 years ago, outside of the AC, so he has the chance to prove his vision for a non AC pro tour in the fastest boats can work. Some ETNZ fanboys will hate, but there is no rational reason to do so as it isn't the AC and doesn't threaten the AC. Is it JAR? Maybe, but it is one I will pay to see.
Yadda yadda.....

Funny how those who say this is separate and no competition, put a 'no compete' clause in their own Protocols specifically to stop AC sailors (Ainsley for example) and Teams from participating in other regattas without leave to do so.

The Spite Cup, woulda, coulda, shoulda

 

Forourselves

Super Anarchist
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2,416
New Zealand
It seems the modification plans for the boats are well under way. They are all getting one design foils which will be controlled by a mix of a computer system and the crew with rake will be powered by batteries so there will only be 2 people on grinders. The one design foils are an onward development designed to make the boats significantly faster than they were with a suggest that they wouldn't meet the old AC50 rule, which doesn't matter as they will be one design.  The aim is to be significantly over 50 knots downwind. Wing trim and adjustments will all be made by ropes and the crew, which is why they will have less grinders, because the crew will be needed to sail the boat.

Larry and Tornqvist are funding the project, but Bertarelli is out because Larry and him have had (another) big argument. That doesn't matter because they have more teams wanting to do it than they have boats. Names such as Outteridge, Slingsby, Ainslie, Cammas and Draper are in with others expected to join, but not anybody from ETNZ or LR. That is seen as their loss, not a loss to the series. Ian Murray running the racing side of things with Coutts overall series CEO.

Venues can be chosen for the best sailing as crowds are not important. TV already lined up which was easier to sell than the AC because it could be packaged better without the need to be live. Events will not be 2 days like the WS but will be long enough to try to protect from poor weather.

It's happening. It will have many big names. It will be fleet sailing, the racing will be a lot closer than in the AC and it will be faster. It will not be the AC, but who cares. It will be the most spectacular racing we have ever seen. The fact the b oats will be significantly faster than in cup mode stops all comments about the fastest AC50 not being there, because the ETNZ will be slower than the revised boats.

Is it being done out of spite and the act of a bad loser? Maybe if it was just Larry, but I don't believe Tornqvist plays like that. He is in it because he loves the boats and the potential. Others want to do it because the boats are so special. Coutts is doing it because this is what he has said he wanted over 10 years ago, outside of the AC, so he has the chance to prove his vision for a non AC pro tour in the fastest boats can work. Some ETNZ fanboys will hate, but there is no rational reason to do so as it isn't the AC and doesn't threaten the AC. Is it JAR? Maybe, but it is one I will pay to see.
Link? There is nothing anywhere to suggest anything is happening anywhere. Even Tom Ehman has seemingly given up on mentioning it. And he was the only one who seemed to know anything about it!

 

Fireball

Anarchist
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5
It seems the modification plans for the boats are well under way. They are all getting one design foils which will be controlled by a mix of a computer system and the crew with rake will be powered by batteries so there will only be 2 people on grinders. The one design foils are an onward development designed to make the boats significantly faster than they were with a suggest that they wouldn't meet the old AC50 rule, which doesn't matter as they will be one design.  The aim is to be significantly over 50 knots downwind. Wing trim and adjustments will all be made by ropes and the crew, which is why they will have less grinders, because the crew will be needed to sail the boat.

Larry and Tornqvist are funding the project, but Bertarelli is out because Larry and him have had (another) big argument. That doesn't matter because they have more teams wanting to do it than they have boats. Names such as Outteridge, Slingsby, Ainslie, Cammas and Draper are in with others expected to join, but not anybody from ETNZ or LR. That is seen as their loss, not a loss to the series. Ian Murray running the racing side of things with Coutts overall series CEO.

Venues can be chosen for the best sailing as crowds are not important. TV already lined up which was easier to sell than the AC because it could be packaged better without the need to be live. Events will not be 2 days like the WS but will be long enough to try to protect from poor weather.

It's happening. It will have many big names. It will be fleet sailing, the racing will be a lot closer than in the AC and it will be faster. It will not be the AC, but who cares. It will be the most spectacular racing we have ever seen. The fact the b oats will be significantly faster than in cup mode stops all comments about the fastest AC50 not being there, because the ETNZ will be slower than the revised boats.

Is it being done out of spite and the act of a bad loser? Maybe if it was just Larry, but I don't believe Tornqvist plays like that. He is in it because he loves the boats and the potential. Others want to do it because the boats are so special. Coutts is doing it because this is what he has said he wanted over 10 years ago, outside of the AC, so he has the chance to prove his vision for a non AC pro tour in the fastest boats can work. Some ETNZ fanboys will hate, but there is no rational reason to do so as it isn't the AC and doesn't threaten the AC. Is it JAR? Maybe, but it is one I will pay to see.
If Ainslie is sailing in this new series then what's happening about their AC36 challenge? It would seem to be impossible to participate in two unrelated series - both time wise and financially.

 

Forourselves

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Ainslie won't be a part of it, neither will Burling, Tuke, Ashby, Spithill or Barker. By the sounds of it Alinghi is out as well. Given this scenario, you won't see ETNZ, Oracle Team USA, Land Rover BAR, Softbank Team Japan or Alinghi. That leaves two AC teams (Brands) Artemis Racing, and Groupama Team France. They can't use any of the copyright and Trademarked material from the Americas Cup, so there is no footage to promote the event, someone has to pay for these supposed upgrades that no one has heard anything about, 2018 is almost half way through, and there is not even a hint of anything being added to the calendar year in 2019. 

 
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Team_GBR

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The Medal Race
Link? There is nothing anywhere to suggest anything is happening anywhere. Even Tom Ehman has seemingly given up on mentioning it. And he was the only one who seemed to know anything about it!
I have heard almost the same thing as A Class Sailor posted. No official announcements for some time yet, because they don't need to make them. The main players know what is going on. The way it was told to me is that only sailors from ETNZ and LR won't be taking part, which means no Jimmy, Ashby, Burling or Tuke. Slingsby will skipper the Oracle boat, Outteridge will helm Artemis with Percy, Barker will be sailing and Chris Draper will skipper a boat. Others want in and the current discussion is whether they can convert AC45's to be fair and competitive as they want more boats.

I believe that the design work is finished, orders have been placed, work schedules are drawn up . Venues are being finalised. I'd put a lot of money on it happening. Time will tell.

 

rh3000

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Auckland, New Zealand
... only sailors from ETNZ and LR won't be taking part...
Given the alleged crew requirements are less for these new boats, I'd say that that there are plenty more sailors from AC35 not taking part than just those working for ETNZ and LR.

Or are you suggesting that there are some others who will be sailing in the next AC cycle as well as participating in this?

 

barfy

Super Anarchist
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I have heard almost the same thing as A Class Sailor posted. No official announcements for some time yet, because they don't need to make them. The main players know what is going on. The way it was told to me is that only sailors from ETNZ and LR won't be taking part, which means no Jimmy, Ashby, Burling or Tuke. Slingsby will skipper the Oracle boat, Outteridge will helm Artemis with Percy, Barker will be sailing and Chris Draper will skipper a boat. Others want in and the current discussion is whether they can convert AC45's to be fair and competitive as they want more boats.

I believe that the design work is finished, orders have been placed, work schedules are drawn up . Venues are being finalised. I'd put a lot of money on it happening. Time will tell.
AC 45's...

That's a good idea.

kinda like going to a rally race with a datsun510.

time will tell.

 

Forourselves

Super Anarchist
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New Zealand
I have heard almost the same thing as A Class Sailor posted. No official announcements for some time yet, because they don't need to make them. The main players know what is going on. The way it was told to me is that only sailors from ETNZ and LR won't be taking part, which means no Jimmy, Ashby, Burling or Tuke. Slingsby will skipper the Oracle boat, Outteridge will helm Artemis with Percy, Barker will be sailing and Chris Draper will skipper a boat. Others want in and the current discussion is whether they can convert AC45's to be fair and competitive as they want more boats.

I believe that the design work is finished, orders have been placed, work schedules are drawn up . Venues are being finalised. I'd put a lot of money on it happening. Time will tell.
You guys always say "I heard" from who? To just say "I heard this" is ridiculous! There are no links, not even any discussions that anyone has heard taking place. If you think Hap Fauth, Doug De Vos and Terry Hutchinson are going to let Barker go anywhere else except "American Magic" you're kidding yourself. Barker is locked in for at least 2018 with the Quantum Bella Mente Team. Barker is also Americas Cup through and through, he's not doing anything except the Americas Cup, especially given the fact it is being held in his home country. He'll be in Auckland in 2021, so he's out. Slingsby, Outteridge and Draper aren't big enough names to carry a brand new series.

Names who won't be a part" Ben Ainslie, and much if not all of his Land Rover BAR team from Bermuda including Giles Scott, Freddie Carr and Leigh McMillan. 

Jimmy Spithill, Francesco Bruni and most of the top Italian sailors.

Dean Barker, and probably most of his ex Team NZ buddies.

Pete Burling, Blair Tuke, Glenn Ashby, Jason Waterhouse is also helming the New Zealand ESS team, so wouldn't be surprised if he becomes part of the next cycle as well.

Sure you might see Outteridge, Draper and Percy, but are they really big enough names to carry a brand new series? 

Its more likely Outteridge and Jensen will focus their attention on Tokyo 2020 and winning a gold medal, they will have to focus much of their attention if they are to defeat Burling and Tuke.

 
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inebriated

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Australia
You guys always say "I heard" from who? To just say "I heard this" is ridiculous! There are no links, not even any discussions that anyone has heard taking place. If you think Hap Fauth, Doug De Vos and Terry Hutchinson are going to let Barker go anywhere else except "American Magic" you're kidding yourself. Barker is locked in for at least 2018 with the Quantum Bella Mente Team. Barker is also Americas Cup through and through, he's not doing anything except the Americas Cup, especially given the fact it is being held in his home country. He'll be in Auckland in 2021, so he's out. Slingsby, Outteridge and Draper aren't big enough names to carry a brand new series.

Names who won't be a part" Ben Ainslie, and much if not all of his Land Rover BAR team from Bermuda including Giles Scott, Freddie Carr and Leigh McMillan. 

Jimmy Spithill, Francesco Bruni and most of the top Italian sailors.

Dean Barker, and probably most of his ex Team NZ buddies.

Pete Burling, Blair Tuke, Glenn Ashby, Jason Waterhouse is also helming the New Zealand ESS team, so wouldn't be surprised if he becomes part of the next cycle as well.

Sure you might see Outteridge, Draper and Percy, but are they really big enough names to carry a brand new series? 

Its more likely Outteridge and Jensen will focus their attention on Tokyo 2020 and winning a gold medal, they will have to focus much of their attention if they are to defeat Burling and Tuke.
+1

outtridge and jensen are no longer in the 49er though, outteridge is with his sister on a nacra from what their instagram stories show. i also have mutual friends with members of the aus nacra squad and they're a bit miffed because it's not like anyone else will get the spot to tokyo.

really though, if they needed big sailing names to carry their new series, outtridge, jensen and slingsby are some of the biggest in the world next to the 3 leaders of TNZ

i definitly agree with you though, this whole ac50 circuit is feeling like a bit of a ruse 

 

nav

Super Anarchist
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Maybe best if A Class explains where all the things he states so definitively are coming from....

 
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Forourselves

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New Zealand
And why would the absence of those names prevent the organisation of another event ?
Because a new event needs sponsors, sponsors need a reason to get involved. Big names attract sponsors. They can no longer rely on the catchphrase "The latest technology" because 1)everyone knows ETNZ has that covered, especially if the 75's take off. And 2) Big names attract audiences. Without big names, no one cares. The only thing that anyone who is pushing this thing are relying on is the fact that Larry is a dumb ass who will do it because he wants to spend hundreds of millions of dollars for next to no return, except a few SA posters who would "pay to see it" 

Think about it, no British team means no british audience, no kiwi team means no Kiwi audience, no American team, no American Audience, no Italian Team, no Italian audience, you get the picture right?

 
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Tornado-Cat

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Because a new event needs sponsors, sponsors need a reason to get involved. Big names attract sponsors. They can no longer rely on the catchphrase "The latest technology" because 1)everyone knows ETNZ has that covered, especially if the 75's take off. And 2) Big names attract audiences. Without big names, no one cares. The only thing that anyone who is pushing this thing are relying on is the fact that Larry is a dumb ass who will do it because he wants to spend hundreds of millions of dollars for next to no return, except a few SA posters who would "pay to see it" 

Think about it, no British team means no british audience, no kiwi team means no Kiwi audience, no American team, no American Audience, no Italian Team, no Italian audience, you get the picture right?
1) There are lots of other big names for another event

2) AC75 latest technology does not exclude another event

3) I don't know if the other event will happen, but if it does, a cheaper and probably faster boat would attract sponsors

 

surfsailor

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Maui
I would think any serious AC challenger would welcome the opportunity to give their sailing team more quality water time on 50kt foilers, especially a new team like Bella Mente Quantum - the boats are already 90% sorted, so the cost of competing will be chump change compared to the overall AC budgets. For sure there will be other hot talent itching to get into next level foiling as well, and with fewer teams in AC36 due to massive expense, this will also be a great opportunity for all the guys who didn't get a gig.

I figure it's win-win - and win^3 if they crack 50 kts with the new foils and flight control systems.

 
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Forourselves

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New Zealand
The BAR 50 is at Core...
The new Sled TP52 was given coverage of its build at CORE, and that was a brand new build. There was photo's of its construction as well as updates as it was being built, and its launch. There are no photo's, no nothing of an AC50, an already established Americas Cup Class yacht arriving at CORE, or being modified at CORE, neither on the CORE Builders website, the CORE Builders Facebook page, the Land Rover BAR Facebook page, or any other NZ Marine industry website, Facebook page or information site anywhere. 

 

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