Laser/ILCA Builders

[RobbieB]

I have a 2017 Laser Performance now and it feels worse than my 1994 vanguard that I got for free after it was t-boned 2x and had severe bow damage from being used as a club hull for junior sailing. I haven't been too hard on the 17' one. I chartered a PSA boat last summer and lucked out with a brand new hull, the difference was noticeable the first day or so but not as much after, still a better hull feel with the PSA then the LP. Really I just want whatever is going to hold up the longest.

Considering LP was in its "tailspin" during 2017 I'd imagine they were likely struggling with QC on builds by that time.  Given the new ILCA focus on builders following the manual and increased ILCA builder inspections I believe you'll be fine with whichever new builder you decide to go with.  Just support your closest local rep.

 

[RobbieB]

... there was a statement by German Laser sailor Philipp Buhl after the Barcelona Worlds last year that the boats weren't "equal":

https://www.yacht.de/regatta/alle_news/finale-bei-der-ilca-7-weltmeisterschaft-vor-barcelona

This might very well have been due to his frustration. He was clearly not happy with the way the regatta was run.

Far too many variables involved to make any conclusions here....

 

[WCB]

I have a 2017 Laser Performance now and it feels worse than my 1994 vanguard that I got for free after it was t-boned 2x and had severe bow damage from being used as a club hull for junior sailing. I haven't been too hard on the 17' one. I chartered a PSA boat last summer and lucked out with a brand new hull, the difference was noticeable the first day or so but not as much after, still a better hull feel with the PSA then the LP. Really I just want whatever is going to hold up the longest.

The late 90s was a known sweet spot of Laser production.  We have a few here in our fleet and people think they're old...but they are quite competitive.

 

[torrid]

Does PSA have expanded distribution set up?  When they first stared importing into the US, it seems most people were having to get in on a group buy for an entire container.  However, that was more than a year ago.

 

[WCB]

Does PSA have expanded distribution set up?  When they first stared importing into the US, it seems most people were having to get in on a group buy for an entire container.  However, that was more than a year ago.

I don't think there's a distributor yet but two or three retailers who are probably committing to a full container at a time. As I mentioned above, the lawyer for Bruce Kirby is local here in Park City, or at least has a second home here, and when we talked he said that they were asking him to become the US distributor. 

 

[Kazrob]

There's a good video tour of the Ovi factory on FB which shows a few details of the extent they go to for ILCAs. Around 15 minutes in you can see they have a jig to set up the mast rake consistently. 

Ovi Factory Tour

 

[Foredeck Shuffle]

Does PSA have expanded distribution set up?  When they first stared importing into the US, it seems most people were having to get in on a group buy for an entire container.  However, that was more than a year ago.

US One Design sells PSA ILCA's.

https://usonedesign.com/

 

[couchsurfer]

Awl lays hers aaargh egg act Lee the sayme

Yah, but some are more same than others.  

... At least they tightened up production from the seventies and eighties, and likely got more consistent with hull and deck weights.  Mast rakes used to vary 8-10", measured to the mast's midpoint.

Production methods have always been to build a set of 10 hulls and decks, and meet the heavier deck and lighter hulls, and vice versa in order to even out the weights. That's fine nowadays, where there's much better consistency, but when variables were more extreme, things could get ludicrous at times.

... There's stories out of the old performance sale craft West Coast shop, we're friends of DT would go in and 'helo' with the layup.   :mellow:

 

[WCB]

... At least they tightened up production from the seventies and eighties, and likely got more consistent with hull and deck weights.  Mast rakes used to vary 8-10", measured to the mast's midpoint.

I can't believe that.  Maybe 8-10cm but not inches...even then.  That would be so bad that the mast step likely didn't make it into the plywood cup.  

 

[couchsurfer]

I can't believe that.  Maybe 8-10cm but not inches...even then.  That would be so bad that the mast step likely didn't make it into the plywood cup.  

Believe what you want. I say 8 to 10 rather than claiming 10, but it was definitely inches....a variable of +/-4-5". 

   I was involved with finns from the age of 19, with the world's top sailors coming to the West coast. I quickly learned the culture of measuring things. 

   Mast rakes became standardized not long after the rothman's worlds in Kingston, where there was 400 sailors being rotated among about 100 boats, (in a very hot,light wind time.  It was sometimes 2-3 days before one's rotation came up, with Rothman's handing out endless smokes, I wretch when I think of that one). 

   Andy Roy and a few others did a study of what boats did best at that worlds,and what their rakes were. The rotation of sailors was a good study platform, and there was certainly lots of time for that, and the deadly Kingston go cart track, and the Kingston peeler bar. I forget how many feet it was from the stern to the top of the bottom section, but it was six and a half inches for the rest of it. As I mentioned, this number became pretty standard not long after that, with the variable seeming to be plus or minus a quarter inch.   B)

 

[MattFranzek]

Going to bump this a year later, any new consensus on who is making fast ILCA or durable ILCA? Used boats are difficult to find by me and with a growing fleet at home I’m looking at new boats.

 

[Jethrow]

Well according the the construction manual, they are all as fast as each other and they'll all last as long as each, other so just pick the group you want to deal with and will support your local fleet!

 

[BlatantEcho]

Going to bump this a year later, any new consensus on who is making fast ILCA or durable ILCA? Used boats are difficult to find by me and with a growing fleet at home I’m looking at new boats.

All the builders are giving away boats to top sailors, so you're getting a cacophony of opinions. 'Influencers' will tell you that E6, Devotti, PSA, Nautivela, Ovington are the best.
For various reasons, each one is 'clearly better' than the others.


One of the reasons is.... the main influencer keeps moving from brand to brand to brand.
PSA, then E6, then Devotti, now, who knows.

It's just a circle of rumors.

Leave the rest to the Olympians to worry about. It won't make an actual damn bit of difference to any sailor, anywhere, ever. One bad tack, poor start, not hiking hard for 10 seconds upwind, and whatever gain was advertised by the builder trying to get your money - is gone.

Get a boat from a dealer that is supportive of your local efforts.
Give your money to a company that is supporting sailing in your part of the world.

 

[Blue One]

Best answer possible to the question asked .

 

[VWAP]

Get the best mast rake for your size and where you race

 

[WCB]

Going to bump this a year later, any new consensus on who is making fast ILCA or durable ILCA? Used boats are difficult to find by me and with a growing fleet at home I’m looking at new boats.

I'm interested in an Ovington myself. When my older son is ready to get an ILCA, I figure he can take my 2009 and I'll get a new Ovi.

 

[MattFranzek]

I have always wanted an Ovington.

What’s the deal with mast rakes being different for different people? What should a bigger guy look for?

 

[Blue One]

During the later LPE years the tolerances on the mast rake were not always as good as they should have been . So sometimes the better Laser sailors would go to the factory/ dealer to check they had the best rake ( sorry no idea what that was. )
These days since the new builders have come on line, I think the tolerances have been tightened ( ILCA experts will correct me if I am wrong ) and the quality control of rake is definitely greatly improved.
I don’t think it’s something you need worry about with any of the new builders .

 

[pqbon]

During the later LPE years the tolerances on the mast rake were not always as got as they should have been . So sometimes the better Laser sailors would go to the factory/ dealer to check they had the best rake ( sorry no idea what that was. )
These days since the new builders have come on line, I think the tolerances have been tightened ( ILCA experts will correct me if I am wrong ) and the quality control of rake is definitely greatly improved.
I don’t think it’s something you need worry about with any of the new builders .

I would assume for a lighter sailor you would be looking for more rake and a heavier sailor would be looking for less rake. Boats with controlled rake - you rake more when the wind comes up.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

All the builders are giving away boats to top sailors, so you're getting a cacophony of opinions. 'Influencers' will tell you that E6, Devotti, PSA, Nautivela, Ovington are the best.

Please list the influencers you know have been given a free boat, and by which manufacturer.

One of the reasons is.... the main influencer keeps moving from brand to brand to brand.

And that person is...?

 

[AnIdiot]

... whatever gain was advertised by the builder trying to get your money - ...

Are any of the builders claiming their boat is faster than any of the others?