Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

[Wess]

...and still we wait...

No. Its...

"... and still we sail..."

The sky never was and never will fall. Unless you are in BK's will or a stockholder in LP, PSA, etc... this just does not matter in any practical way any more for sailors in the class. The class's actions have ensured we could, can and will be to continue to sail and race our Lasers.

Let the fat cats fight. Go sailing!

Gotta try the new sail this weekend. And hopefully the new top section soon!

 

[Gouvernail]

If the courts see it the way Wess sees it, and the contracts are found to be valid, I will enjoy the resulting application of the laws.

 

[Wess]

If the courts see it the way Wess sees it, and the contracts are found to be valid, I will enjoy the resulting application of the laws.

Ah Gouv, not going to go round and round. Does not matter which way the court rules. Lots of ways to get boats meeting same specifications of current Lasers and make them class legal. You can build and sell that boat today (in fact others do); you just can't call it a Laser. If class wished they have ways to make that boat a class legal boat today. Doubt it comes to that.

Y'all been telling me the Laser class sky if falling for years now... maybe even pushing a half decade of you folks crying wolf and whining endlessly

If the day comes the class dies because of this litigation and inability to get boats that meet all the same basic specifications today's do; I will eat crow.

Till then... preach on but don't expect me to stop sailing or believe.

Dude, you are easier to wind up that the other one. Go sail and have fun.

You remember sailing right?

 

[couchsurfer]

Y'all been telling me the Laser class sky if falling for years now... maybe even pushing a half decade of you folks crying wolf and whining endlessly

....errr,, other than the very top end,, fleet sizes have been falling for 3 decades now :mellow:

 

[Gouvernail]

You missed my point Wess.

You wrote something like "the actions of the Class allowed LP to keep us supplied with boats from LP."

I absolutely do not disagree with you on that point

Kirby has accused the Class of doing EXACTLY that.

If Kirby's accusations and your conclusions are correct and the contracts ( as Kirby claims) prohibit such behavior I will enjoy seeing appropriate penalties applied on those who broke the contracts.

If there are no such contracts and Kirby has no standing with respect to who supplied or supplies Lasers for use in ILCA games or sale anywhere In the world????

Well then... The decision by the class officers to accept Lasers from builders who have no contract with Kirby won't matter

I don't believe any of this has any significant impact on my Wednesday night fleet or even the national and international laser events

Summary: if it is shown that people failed to honor legitimate contracts, I hope they are appropriately sanctioned.

If those sanctioned happen to be ILCA officers I will be pleased

That's all

 

[Wess]

Y'all been telling me the Laser class sky if falling for years now... maybe even pushing a half decade of you folks crying wolf and whining endlessly

....errr,, other than the very top end,, fleet sizes have been falling for 3 decades now :mellow:

So has just about every fleet be it OD, PHRF, big boats or dinghies. Laser has hung on far better than many. Can't blame the decline of sailing on Kirby's lawsuit.

You missed my point Wess.

You wrote something like "the actions of the Class allowed LP to keep us supplied with boats from LP."

I absolutely do not disagree with you on that point

Kirby has accused the Class of doing EXACTLY that.

If Kirby's accusations and your conclusions are correct and the contracts ( as Kirby claims) prohibit such behavior I will enjoy seeing appropriate penalties applied on those who broke the contracts.

If there are no such contracts and Kirby has no standing with respect to who supplied or supplies Lasers for use in ILCA games or sale anywhere In the world????

Well then... The decision by the class officers to accept Lasers from builders who have no contract with Kirby won't matter

I don't believe any of this has any significant impact on my Wednesday night fleet or even the national and international laser events

Summary: if it is shown that people failed to honor legitimate contracts, I hope they are appropriately sanctioned.

If those sanctioned happen to be ILCA officers I will be pleased

That's all

We agree the bold part Gouv. As for any meaningful sanctions against ILCA - good luck with that. I think there is a better chance of BK and LP having a love child called a Torch. But I get that meaningful ILCA sanctions are your Christmas wish.

Mine is for 10-15 knots of breeze, a driving snow, air temps in the 20s, water in the 40s, and a drysuit that does not leak for the duration of our frostbite season. Getting too old and don't have many of these fun times left.

 

[Gouvernail]

I don't stay up nights figuring out ways to help the ILCA officers get punished for their folly.

And. I doubt they ever will feel sanctions.

You are correct about one thing;

If it is found they have improperly conspired to deprive another man of man of his compensation described in very real contracts, and they are forced to pay personally for their illegal acts, I will be happy to see the application of the appropriate sanctions

Yes I am often happy when those who break the law are caught and appropriately sanctioned.

In the case of the ILCA it is personal. If some of those who conspired to deprive me of my contracted compensation in 2002 are caught up and punished in the court's resolution of the Kirby matter I will be ecstatic!!

 

[Wess]

I don't stay up nights figuring out ways to help the ILCA officers get punished for their folly.

And. I doubt they ever will feel sanctions.

You are correct about one thing;

If it is found they have improperly conspired to deprive another man of man of his compensation described in very real contracts, and they are forced to pay personally for their illegal acts, I will be happy to see the application of the appropriate sanctions

Yes I am often happy when those who break the law are caught and appropriately sanctioned.

In the case of the ILCA it is personal. If some of those who conspired to deprive me of my contracted compensation in 2002 are caught up and punished in the court's resolution of the Kirby matter I will be ecstatic!!

I got nothing for that Gouv. Find peace. Go sailing. Should some breeze materialize I plan to do exactly that.

 

[Gouvernail]

Taking beginners for rides again today. Then there is a huge PHrF event

 

[couchsurfer]

Y'all been telling me the Laser class sky if falling for years now... maybe even pushing a half decade of you folks crying wolf and whining endlessly

....errr,, other than the very top end,, fleet sizes have been falling for 3 decades now :mellow:

So has just about every fleet be it OD, PHRF, big boats or dinghies. Laser has hung on far better than many. Can't blame the decline of sailing on Kirby's lawsuit.

.....Kiteboarding and sportboats,,,sailing is doing totally fine as a sport,, but yeh, it's nothin to do with Kirby

 

[Board skiff]

Wild speculation - could this be the reason the new ISAF CEO quit after less than 6 months in post? Maybe he saw how complicit ISAF were in the plaque debacle.

 

[couchsurfer]

Wild speculation - could this be the reason the new ISAF CEO quit after less than 6 months in post? Maybe he saw how complicit ISAF were in the plaque debacle.

meh. I'd be betting the Laser debacle is a small fish in the ISAF barrel :mellow:

 

[jeffers]

Wild speculation - could this be the reason the new ISAF CEO quit after less than 6 months in post? Maybe he saw how complicit ISAF were in the plaque debacle.

meh. I'd be betting the Laser debacle is a small fish in the ISAF barrel :mellow:

Possibly, at the moment all that is happening is the class is damaging itself in the eyes of those who give a damn.

At least the finally got the new sail signed off, only took 4 years or so.....

Now the carbon top section that is ready for market, think they will agree on that soon?

 

[torrid]

I believe the peanut gallery was more concerned with the new sail design than the carbon top section.

 

[couchsurfer]

........at the moment all that is happening is the class is damaging itself in the eyes of those who give a damn.

...that's less and less.....day by day.

.....will the Falmouth guy be the last one standing? :mellow:

 

[Wess]

Wild speculation - could this be the reason the new ISAF CEO quit after less than 6 months in post? Maybe he saw how complicit ISAF were in the plaque debacle.

meh. I'd be betting the Laser debacle is a small fish in the ISAF barrel :mellow:

Possibly, at the moment all that is happening is the class is damaging itself in the eyes of those who give a damn.

At least the finally got the new sail signed off, only took 4 years or so.....

Now the carbon top section that is ready for market, think they will agree on that soon?

How do you figure.

We got dozens and dozens of folks frostbiting Lasers. Can't remember the last time this topic came up (winter or summer) in the club level fleet. Even over beers after racing.

There are people who sail and people who talk about it on the internet. Not sure how much any of them sail - or sailed ever - in the Laser fleet but I suspect not many do. The talkers talk and type. The sailors are all still sailing and having fun.

 

[ojfd]

Now the carbon top section that is ready for market, think they will agree on that soon?

Yes.

 

[jeffers]

Wild speculation - could this be the reason the new ISAF CEO quit after less than 6 months in post? Maybe he saw how complicit ISAF were in the plaque debacle.

meh. I'd be betting the Laser debacle is a small fish in the ISAF barrel :mellow:

Possibly, at the moment all that is happening is the class is damaging itself in the eyes of those who give a damn.

At least the finally got the new sail signed off, only took 4 years or so.....

Now the carbon top section that is ready for market, think they will agree on that soon?

How do you figure.

We got dozens and dozens of folks frostbiting Lasers. Can't remember the last time this topic came up (winter or summer) in the club level fleet. Even over beers after racing.

There are people who sail and people who talk about it on the internet. Not sure how much any of them sail - or sailed ever - in the Laser fleet but I suspect not many do. The talkers talk and type. The sailors are all still sailing and having fun.

Because in the UK the club level laser fleets are in decline. People have had enough of the Laser and are voting with their feet and their wallets. Some traditional classes such as the National Solo are picking up a lot of club and open circuit level sailors. Others are trying the new classes such as the D-Zero and RS Aero and are liking what they see.

For example my local club (which is a small club) used to get up to 20 Lasers out for a fleet race through the summer usually averaging out around 12-13. Now they are lucky if they get 2 or 3. Most of the class stalwarts have moved to other classes.

 

[Gouvernail]

In the U.S. We have a surge of graduated Opti sailors whose parents are used to spending $30,000 per year on the kid's sailing program.

The recent District 13 regatta had over 100 boats because the well funded kids are already in Florida for the Orsnge Bowl and possibly the Annual week of sitting on shore wishing there were some wind called the Olympic Classes Regatta.

Count me among those who sincerely hopes these kids will learn to love sailing and show up in local yacht clubs and be the next generation to replace all those over sixty folks who have been running the game for the last forty years.

I remain CONVINCED the market is wide open for a builder and sales force who would build an inexpensive durable racing toy ( like a Laser's developers tried to create) and who would focus on creating huge regattas, huge local events, and huge local fleets.

The Laser has been surviving on its leftover reputation and void of an alternative since the early eighties.

The fact is there are better and easier ways to make a return on the financial investment but sooner or later someone who has a few million dollars to throw at creating the next sailing boom will see it CAN be done without losing those millions.

In fact, I think the market in which that builder could make a little money is already there.

 

[Wess]

Wild speculation - could this be the reason the new ISAF CEO quit after less than 6 months in post? Maybe he saw how complicit ISAF were in the plaque debacle.

meh. I'd be betting the Laser debacle is a small fish in the ISAF barrel :mellow:

Possibly, at the moment all that is happening is the class is damaging itself in the eyes of those who give a damn.

At least the finally got the new sail signed off, only took 4 years or so.....

Now the carbon top section that is ready for market, think they will agree on that soon?

How do you figure.

We got dozens and dozens of folks frostbiting Lasers. Can't remember the last time this topic came up (winter or summer) in the club level fleet. Even over beers after racing.

There are people who sail and people who talk about it on the internet. Not sure how much any of them sail - or sailed ever - in the Laser fleet but I suspect not many do. The talkers talk and type. The sailors are all still sailing and having fun.

Because in the UK the club level laser fleets are in decline. People have had enough of the Laser and are voting with their feet and their wallets. Some traditional classes such as the National Solo are picking up a lot of club and open circuit level sailors. Others are trying the new classes such as the D-Zero and RS Aero and are liking what they see.

For example my local club (which is a small club) used to get up to 20 Lasers out for a fleet race through the summer usually averaging out around 12-13. Now they are lucky if they get 2 or 3. Most of the class stalwarts have moved to other classes.

Yea, agree its fair to say there is greater traction by classes competing with Laser - such as Aero - in Europe than there is in US. Not sure why it is so but sort of doubt its the lawsuit. We have not seen that shift in US for whatever reason. I suspect most agree that Aero is a better boat and build at same price as the Laser, but a benefit of the Laser fleet is 1000s and 1000s of affordable boats such that you can go out and race competitively at the club level on just about any shoestring budget. The "generic" sails made that even easier.