Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

Wavedancer II

Anarchist
742
196
In the aftermath, is the following correct?

1. LP will pay future royalties to GS

2. The royalties that were put in escrow by LP will be disbursed to GS

3. Kirby won't loose any sleep about keeping the 2 million from GS since he really did sell the kaboodle

4. Kirby stickers will become super valuable :)

 

torrid

Super Anarchist
1,085
435
In the aftermath, is the following correct?

1. LP will pay future royalties to GS

2. The royalties that were put in escrow by LP will be disbursed to GS

3. Kirby won't loose any sleep about keeping the 2 million from GS since he really did sell the kaboodle

4. Kirby stickers will become super valuable :)
Probably only #3.

 

tillerman

Super Anarchist
6,015
2,959
Rhode Island
In the aftermath, is the following correct?

1. LP will pay future royalties to GS

2. The royalties that were put in escrow by LP will be disbursed to GS

3. Kirby won't loose any sleep about keeping the 2 million from GS since he really did sell the kaboodle

4. Kirby stickers will become super valuable :)

No, no, yes, no.

 

Wess

Super Anarchist
In the aftermath, is the following correct?

1. LP will pay future royalties to GS

2. The royalties that were put in escrow by LP will be disbursed to GS

3. Kirby won't loose any sleep about keeping the 2 million from GS since he really did sell the kaboodle

4. Kirby stickers will become super valuable :)

No, no, yes, no.
TM is smarter than me but while my guesses are the same for 1 and 3 I hope he is wrong about 4. I got all mine (belts, shirts and membership) and planned to retire off them. :blink:

Either way, what an odd apparent ending. In like a lion and out like a lamb. Maybe the grey hair was tone deaf and never got the message?



Of course, walking away free and clear with $1.6 million for something drawn up in the last century ain't bad as a downside.

Of course his partners in... well whatever you want to call it... sure got the short end of the stick. Curious if they will cut their losses. Or opt to fight and use HWCBN as their lawyer while BK and the Gouv partner to launch the Torch at discount prices and stimulate a new wave of growth in sailing.

We will have to wait and see. Only time will tell.

 
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Wess

Super Anarchist
Gouvernail said:
If I build a generic Laser I won't be partnering with anybody. I will just make molds and build boats.

It is extremely doubtful I will ever make the molds
Gouv - Sorry, I did not mean that in a serious way and was not trying to wind you up. I should have used that special sarcasm font for the end of that post, LOL.

I am pretty sure GS will not be using HWCBN as their lawyer if they do reopen the litigation. :wacko:

And I doubt the Torch will ever launch. Much as I think it (Torch as a discount generic Laser) would have been good for the class and sailing in general at a club level, it seems to have been just another line of _ _ in a long stream of it.

Hope all is well... and it sounds like you had some fun on an Aero! You gotta try the UFO too (no sarcasm)!!

 

torrid

Super Anarchist
1,085
435
I think all the judge said is that GS has the rights and not Kirby, therefore his case has no merit. There are several counterclaims filed by LP that are still unresolved, and conceivably GS could still sue LP.

 

Wess

Super Anarchist
so it all stopped but has the ownership, trademark builders manual stuff all been solved?

Has the Laser been thrown into public ownership as there are no valid rights on anything?
There are valid rights. Various builders in various regions own the Laser trademark. No dispute there. Same with builder's manual; class and builder controlled.

As for the rest I think (?) anyone has been free for many years to make and sell as exact a copy of a Laser as they can possibly make... they just can't call it a Laser. I think (?) some have done exactly that in some markets (such as the so-called 99er).

Much as some here tried with much smoke and mirrors and repeated posts (that lacked any music videos, LOL) to make it more, this case was a contractual dispute. Period. BK held certain historic rights that were captured in renewable contracts (that could also not be renewed). The court found that BK sold those rights to GS so BK has no standing to sue. All parties (AFAIK) including LP, GS, BK agree the contracts that held those rights were terminated (I am sure they disagree by whom, when, for what reasons, and the implications). So broadly speaking, the class has the manual, the builders have the trademark, and BK has the $1.6 million that he retains after GS paid him for the rights that were in contracts that all parties agree were thereafter terminated. An interesting question is if GS has any right(s) (IP) left from what it bought from BK that it could use to form the basis/consideration of a new contract with anyone since the old ones were terminated. I suspect they don't but that is an opinion not a fact.

Its an interesting case if you happen to be into IP and licensing but beyond that this is and was a non-event for class sailors despite much noise by many in the past to make it more than it was. The class took the right steps to ensure that the sailors would not be impacted by the contractual dispute between builder(s) and historic rights owner(s).

 
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Sailabout

Super Anarchist
so we will end up with lots of builders selling a class legal boat to enter a Laser regatta its just wont be called a laser

like lots of other classes out there?

The EU will put 100% tariffs on them if they are built in the UK, lol

 
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tillerman

Super Anarchist
6,015
2,959
Rhode Island
so we will end up with lots of builders selling a class legal boat to enter a Laser regatta its just wont be called a laser

like lots of other classes out there?

The EU will put 100% tariffs on them if they are built in the UK, lol

They will all be built in China. And President Trump will put 100% tariffs on them if they are imported into the US.

 

Wess

Super Anarchist
so we will end up with lots of builders selling a class legal boat to enter a Laser regatta its just wont be called a laser

like lots of other classes out there?

The EU will put 100% tariffs on them if they are built in the UK, lol

They will all be built in China. And President Trump will put 100% tariffs on them if they are imported into the US.
Yea and 200% tariffs if they are sold in Texas... because you know... its Texas and they deserve it.

The class of course has nothing to say about what is and isn't class legal so they have no way to stop those generic boats from competing any more than they can stop the use of generic sails at class events.... oh wait... -_-

Geeze TM, how many socks does your new Aero friend have? Sniffing all that resin seems to be getting to him. He should come visit. Matthew is coming and bringing some balmy breezes to clear the air this weekend.

 

jeffers

Member
280
1
UK
Gouvernail said:
I am confused. Who is being accused of posting here with socks?? Wess or Tillerman?
More to the point do we care?.......

On another note.... LP have used strong arm tactics on the 'replica' parts issue.

I know of one supplier who has stopped supplying them because another side of their business would suffer as dealers in the UK and US have been told if they deal with any company that provides replica or training parts they will have their dealership status revoked. Fair enough some might say but had LP not been so greedy on the price in the first place it would not be an issue. We were always told one of the reasons genuine parts were so expensive was because of roylaties that needed to be paid.... ya know the ones that weren't being paid...apparently....

I'll get my coat....

 

dogwatch

Super Anarchist
17,924
2,199
South Coast, UK
"We were always told one of the reasons genuine parts were so expensive was because of roylaties that needed to be paid"

Kirby only ever got royalties on new boats. Not sails or other parts. That's detailed on some of the documents that made it into the public domain.

 
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jeffers

Member
280
1
UK
"We were always told one of the reasons genuine parts were so expensive was because of roylaties that needed to be paid"

Kirby only ever got royalties on new boats. Not sails or other parts. That's detailed on some of the documents that made it into the public domain.
A royalty is payable on the sail to someone, that is the reason for the 'button' I believe.

 


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