Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

[Daniel Holman]

Volunteering is pretty dead in the uk at least apart from those of pensionable age or at least approaching it.

Everyone expects instant gratification and stuff like participating in organising ones own choice of entertainment is something that the modern "time poor" generation would far rather outsource at least in principle.

You get the odd volunteer but unless the activity in question is seriously enjoyable it will be easy to get disillusioned as the volunteers get essentiallly zero appreciation.

 

[dogwatch]

^

I helped run a class association for a few years. I was an owner/volunteer. One member, who found the time to sail every event and did quite well, was especially vocal about what "somebody" ought to organise. Care to join the committee? Sorry no, he said, I am much too busy sailing. Unless us suckers, apparently. Way to go on motivating those who organise your class, dipshit.

But quite honestly, these days, I am happy belonging to a club and to a class association that calls me a "member" when I am really a "customer". It costs a bit more but that's OK by me. It isn't what everyone wants or can even afford but I think it's now what most sailors want. Not just sailors, look at those huge cycling "sportives" where people cheerfully pay large fees for an organised events on public roads anyone can ride anytime for free.

 

[Wess]

As long as there is money for some part time jobs, free trips to the worlds sites, money for trips to the worlds, money to pay folks to run major regattas, money for IYRU, kickbacks from the chambers of congress at the major venues, some sponsorship and advertising money, and sales commissions

Ain't nobody gonna rock the boat.

Gulf Coasts this weekend oughta be fun.

Register,,, rig,,, sail,,, visit with friends,,,, sail more,,,, hit a good restaurant,,,, go home

Wow; I didn't know.

But I "ain't gonna rock the boat."

Heck, I am going to nominate TM for the job and hope he gives me a finders fee cut.

What? I lost the thread here.

What job?

Are we talking about being Bruce Kirby's new lawyer? Who would he like to sue next?

No, TM, not Bruce's lawyer. I am talking about the job that gets all the free trips, money and kickbacks that Gouv references above. You know the job he means. Next election cycle I am nominating you, LOL.

I do agree w Gouv that volunteers cant do it all for a class with the size, global span, complexity, and Olympic status that Laser has.

Even for smaller classes, I think the manufacturer has a vested interest to be and stay involved. But for that they need stability. Not a dinghy obviously but go back a few years and think about the Corsair F28R class. Was quite active and full of buzz. I ran into them at Key West Race Week and they were all that. The manufacturer was not involved at all really. Was all driven by one very good and active volunteer owner/racer/sailor. Then he sold his F28R, bought a Seawind I believe, and went cruising. F28R class was dead shortly thereafter. I have done a lot of volunteering and it is one tiring thankless job. Just don't think that a pure volunteer model is sustainable. Too few willing to do it. And too many not doing anything are willing to b*tch about those that do as Dogwatch notes.

One of the many good reasons I will not criticize the class is that I have been in that barrel (smaller barrel than Laser). I had it easy but free trips, money, and kickbacks my *ss. Its a headache of unequaled magnitude no matter how you slice it.

 

[Gouvernail]

One of the many good reasons I will not criticize the class is that I have been in that barrel (smaller barrel than Laser). I had it easy but free trips, money, and kickbacks my *ss. Its a headache of unequaled magnitude no matter how you slice it.

Ignorance is bliss sometimes. It isnt first class flights, four star hotels, or FIFA sized checks but

I have taken some of those trips

I have written some of the checks to pay for the trips of others

I have seen money change hands for which I never was able to find line items in the annual class reports.

Ask not why there would be, ask why there would not!!

Good people expect an effort to provide reasonable compensation. We don't want our volunteers to reach into their own pockets to serve us.

We also don't want anyone to receive ANY compensation that is less than fully described in our annual reports.

In practice?? If a volunteer or class employee is handed a $100 bill, that money goes in the Class treasury.

Plane flights and rooms at a venue may. E part of hosts being nice to volunteers, but class employees need to properly report those items in the books

 

[Sailabout]

I think a successful class should be driven/funded by the manufacturer, its the only concept that survives in the long run.

If they want to give up sell the rights and molds to the class.

 

[dogwatch]

I think a successful class should be driven/funded by the manufacturer, its the only concept that survives in the long run.

Is 70 years of the still-thriving Merlin Rocket class "long run" enough for you, entirely member-driven and funded?

 

[GBRNoah]

I think a successful class should be driven/funded by the manufacturer, its the only concept that survives in the long run.

If they want to give up sell the rights and molds to the class.

That just won't work for a class that doesn't have a single builder. E.g. Fireball, where 1000's were home built by amatuers in its heydey, and there were (still are) several commercial builders just in the UK.

 

[Dex Sawash]

imagine a laser class with rastegar holding the purse strings

 

[Sailabout]

imagine a laser class with rastegar holding the purse strings

so now you have lots of volunteers worldwide working for free to make his business a success.

 

[tillerman]

imagine a laser class with rastegar holding the purse strings

so now you have lots of volunteers worldwide working for free to make his business a success.

Sort of.

And also you have thousands of Laser sailors worldwide giving money every year to the Class Association to pay people at the class office to make Rastegar's business a success.

Not to mention thousands of Laser sailors giving money every year for the last few years to the Class Association to pay lawyers to defend a lawsuit from the boat's designer.

Laser sailors are such generous people. We really have nothing better to do with our money.

 

[lindy911]

Except spend it on an Aero...

 

[Dex Sawash]

Bump.

Any rumours?

 

[tillerman]

Bump.

Any rumours?

Wesley W. Whitmyer Junior is racing a Melges 20 at the Newport Regatta in July.

https://yachtscoring.com/current_event_entries.cfm?order=make

 

[Gouvernail]

AERO

 

[Eddie_E]

On 9/30/2016 at 5:34 PM, Wess said:



I don't know about the Aero. A better Laser for sure but for lots of and large OD fleets it lacks the wide availability of cheap used boats that are still competitive at a club level like Laser has. That can only come with lots of time.

If I am going to spend that (cost of a new Aero) I admit I am more interested to learn something new (foiling) and see if OD fleets can be built there. Give me a UFO.

As a recreational sailor who is looking at OD boats for the first time, I'm seeing the Laser class as a shit-show. After seeing the Aero in person, I also don't see the direct comparison of the Aero to Laser. One is a modern ultra light wonder of technology and one is old heavy OD from the past. If there is a new design that replaces the Laser, in my mind, it's the RS Neo. Although I don't fully understand how Portsmouth numbers are created other than it starts with UK sailors averaging race results over a couple months, I would expect the medium weight Neo with the 6.4 rig and no vang to be close to a Laser. A roto-molded boat also takes care of the sailing school abuse and would eventually generate some used boats that don't have spongy butt prints in the deck.

As my yacht club application hasn't had any response, I'll probably just buy a $400 Sunfish and a new Intensity sail to do some urban-assault sailing. The next closest YC races Sunfish as well.

 

[tillerman]

A new product doesn't need to be very similar to its predecessor to win customers away. It has to satisfy the same basic needs and desires as the old product, but if it does so in a way that is superior it can win in the market place. The Laser was the best planing singlehander in 1971. As you say, it is now very outdated and a number of other boats give a much better experience for someone seeking an exciting singlehanded dinghy. The only things that are keeping the Laser on life support - and they are not insignificant - are the existing fleets and regatta circuits, and the availability of cheap second-hand boats.

What is urban assault sailing?

I feel a video coming on...
 

 

[Eddie_E]

What is urban assault sailing?

My definition of "urban assault sailing" would be to drag a light boat over rock walls, through the woods between town parks and swimming only areas to access the many miles of water in Massachusetts. There are many old boat ramps that have been abandoned or blocked to motor vehicles by the DCR (fish cops). Many of them are still viable sailing spots. Some examples would be Wollaston Beach in Quincy MA, Revere Beach, Nanatasket Beach, the back side of Lake Cochituate in Framingham, the two un-named between Brandies University and I 495 and at least 3 ponds in Plymouth MA. 

Basically any way to get around the New England phenomenon of 50 boats circling the public boat ramp parking waiting for one of the 10 trailer spots available. I'm grocery shopping on a Sunday when there is a 15 MPH SSW wind and 85 degrees outside. This is the second weekend I couldn't sail and I'm loosing my mind.

 

[Eddie_E]

, here's your video.  Not me sailing though.

 

[tillerman]

My definition of "urban assault sailing" would be to drag a light boat over rock walls, through the woods between town parks and swimming only areas to access the many miles of water in Massachusetts. There are many old boat ramps that have been abandoned or blocked to motor vehicles by the DCR (fish cops). Many of them are still viable sailing spots. Some examples would be Wollaston Beach in Quincy MA, Revere Beach, Nanatasket Beach, the back side of Lake Cochituate in Framingham, the two un-named between Brandies University and I 495 and at least 3 ponds in Plymouth MA. 

Basically any way to get around the New England phenomenon of 50 boats circling the public boat ramp parking waiting for one of the 10 trailer spots available. I'm grocery shopping on a Sunday when there is a 15 MPH SSW wind and 85 degrees outside. This is the second weekend I couldn't sail and I'm loosing my mind.

LOL. I was talking to some sailing friends the other day about how trying to launch from a public ramp in Rhode Island on a summer weekend is not worth the effort. Even if you can find a parking spot, you then have to deal with the weekend warrior ramp hogs who don't see to be able to launch or recover their motor boats without having sole use of the ramp for 30 minutes at least.

"Urban assault sailing" sounds like a good solution to that. Although a $400 Sunfish sounds like a better boat to use than a brand new $8,000 RS Aero.

 

[Sailabout]

so have the ICLA shot themselves in the foot siding with Rastegar and nobody can get laser parts anywhere in the world except where the Ozzies are allowed to sell them?

( I guess that result was the court case in reality)