Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

[Xeon]

Sorry. I think I was probably supposed to use purple font

Rasty doesn’t admit to owing anybody any money
And
Kirby is dead.

Very true .
But 1) A court/judge disagrees with Rasty.
2) Kirby is dead but the rights to his fees are not.

Will anyone ever get the money , of course not. Rasty will continue to play pass the parcel with the money and the rights to the Laser trademark.


On the other the ILCA now has has good builders and doesn’t have to deal with LP anymore , so it a win win .
As I said the war has been won all that’s left is to clear up some of the battle damage

PS if you want this thread to die the only thing you can do is stop posting on it .

 

[tillerman]

Very true .
But 1) A court/judge disagrees with Rasty.
2) Kirby is dead but the rights to his fees are not.

Will anyone ever get the money , of course not. Rasty will continue to play pass the parcel with the money and the rights to the Laser trademark.

Who actually has the right to Kirby's previously unpaid royalties?
I got confused about where things ended up with Global Sailing after Kirby sold the right to GS for a lump sum but then it got murky when LP refused to pay royalties to GS. I know there was talk of Kirby buying back his rights. Did Kirby end up as the sole owner of the rights or does Global sailing still own part or all of them?

And as a separate question, I assume someone is collecting designer royalties from all the current ILCA builders. But who?

 

[JimC]

And as a separate question, I assume someone is collecting designer royalties from all the current ILCA builders. But who?

Overview of ILCA Finances - Part 2 - International Laser Class Association

As set out in a previous article, the pattern for ILCA’s income and costs has been stable for many years. But with the policy changes required to comply with World [...]

www.laserinternational.org

In addition to these fees, all builders will continue the ex gratis designer fee of $US50 per hull historically paid to Bruce Kirby Inc. This fee will now be paid to Global Sailing Ltd, which has purchased the assets of Bruce Kirby Inc.

 

[tillerman]

Overview of ILCA Finances - Part 2 - International Laser Class Association

As set out in a previous article, the pattern for ILCA’s income and costs has been stable for many years. But with the policy changes required to comply with World [...]

www.laserinternational.org

So, financially, the owners of Global Sailing and PSA are winners. They can (through PSA) sell their new ILCAs anywhere in the world, and all the other ILCA builders pay them designer fees. Win win.

 

[Xeon]

So, financially, the owners of Global Sailing and PSA are winners. They can (through PSA) sell their new ILCAs anywhere in the world, and all the other ILCA builders pay them designer fees. Win win.

Plus I think the two legacy builders get 50% of the class royalty fees .

Which is why I was so surprised LP didn’t go along with it .
Money for doing nothing .

 

[JimC]

Which is why I was so surprised LP didn’t go along with it .
Money for doing nothing .

Its hard to see any logic in LPs actions. Even if they manage to evade all the damages it must have cost them at best hundreds of thousands in legal fees, all to avoid paying royalties which were chicken feed by comparison. It would be fascinating to hear what the thinking was behind their wars with both ILCA and ISCA, not to mention their neglect of the US market. Sadly I don't suppose we'll ever know.

 

[Gouvernail]

Still ignoring

 

[Xeon]

But still posting lol

 

[Gouvernail]

Say what?? I am ignoring so I don’t know what Anybody else wrote…

 

[Xeon]

I don’t want to state the bleeding obvious, but I will.
1) You cannot ignore something if you keep posting on it.
And more importantly,
2) Everytime you post , the thread goes to the top of the list , so people click on it and might post themselves.
If you want this thread to die, stop posting

 

[Gouvernail]

Wishing death on someone else’s thread seems mean… so I will just continue to ignore parts of some of the posts or maybe others if I notice them maybe

 

[Dex Sawash]

Where would we be if the class had just tossed out the trademark at the beginning instead of enabling LP?
Might have even had time to do it with proper votes <ninja emoji>

 

[JimC]

With hindsight that whole dubious fundamental rule change affair looks to have been a big error. Interesting of course that a leading architect of that affair went on to play a big role in the early days of 'theLaserClass'. Regulatory capture I suppose.

 

[JimC]

Here is the text of the Laser/ILCA Constitution change.

http://www.laserinternational.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/ILCA-Constitution-Final-revision-for-voting-WITH-MARKUP.pdf

Its a very considerable, even radical change. Much greater than I would have anticipated, which perhaps partially explains how it took so long to get to the membership. AIUI the voting has now finished but the results aren't in yet.
Some points.
Gone is all the vote now, vote how we tell you, don't try and find an alternate view language of the old fundamental rule change ballot. This is, superficially at least, presented in a more measured way. Having said that some might argue the extent of the governance changes are understated.
They really don't like their past president. Not only is the role of past president removed from the Council, but also a conflict of interest policy comes in as part of the constitution.
The European CA gets an extra seat in Council while it continues to dominate the membership numerically. A sop to the criticism from TLC about europeans being under represented in proportion to membership numbers.
Builders get only one place on what is now the technical and measurement committee, not the advisory council. The advisory council was 50% builders so I think theoretically had a veto on certain changes. The Committee is 75% ILCA, 25% builders, so the influence of builders is considerably reduced.

 

[Gouvernail]

V

 

[Xeon]

It’s a wonderful and very apt quote. And works beautifully with Trump supporters in the USA and brexit supporters in the uk. But I have no idea what relevance it has to the Laser/ ILCA situation as everyone knew who was trying to spread fake information and no one was fooled

 

[Xeon]

Here is the text of the Laser/ILCA Constitution change.

http://www.laserinternational.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/ILCA-Constitution-Final-revision-for-voting-WITH-MARKUP.pdf

Its a very considerable, even radical change. Much greater than I would have anticipated, which perhaps partially explains how it took so long to get to the membership. AIUI the voting has now finished but the results aren't in yet.
Some points.
Gone is all the vote now, vote how we tell you, don't try and find an alternate view language of the old fundamental rule change ballot. This is, superficially at least, presented in a more measured way. Having said that some might argue the extent of the governance changes are understated.
They really don't like their past president. Not only is the role of past president removed from the Council, but also a conflict of interest policy comes in as part of the constitution.
The European CA gets an extra seat in Council while it continues to dominate the membership numerically. A sop to the criticism from TLC about europeans being under represented in proportion to membership numbers.
Builders get only one place on what is now the technical and measurement committee, not the advisory council. The advisory council was 50% builders so I think theoretically had a veto on certain changes. The Committee is 75% ILCA, 25% builders, so the influence of builders is considerably reduced.

As I said earlier, the war is won and the ILCA now control the class .

 

[Gouvernail]

Without a shot fired

 

[Gouvernail]

The absolute only control the ILCA has over boat manufacturing is, “ILCA will not lend its support to businessmen who fail to pay the ILCA. “

Anybody can build boats that are just like the Laser
Anybody who the trademark owners allow to do so may build and market Lasers

Those manufacturers who give certain controls of their manufacturing to the ILCA may sell their products knowing their customers will be allowed to use those products to play certain sailing games.

Until the ILCA changes it’s mind

.

 

[tillerman]

The ILCA not only controls the builders and the class. It also has authority over all activities of every ILCA class sailboat sold anywhere in the world whether or not it is racing and whether or not its owner is a member of the ILCA. Or at least they say they do (assuming the changes to the constitution have been or will be approved by the members of the ILCA.)

4. JURISDICTION
The Association has authority over all activities of the ILCA class sailboat throughout the world.