Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

tillerman

Super Anarchist
5,635
2,789
Rhode Island
But the class cannot split in two because of new rigs if your argument is correct as you have said the vast majority want to stay with class racing and will stay will ali rigs . If your correct all it would mean at worst is some 8’ rigs would have been sold into the uk for old gits like me to use py racing .

Don’t get me wrong I love strict one design boats, after all I am still sailing one ( just one with less vices ) .
BUT the Laser classes attitude ( summed up my most of your posts) to any kind of change however minor ( or inexpensive)to simply remove some of the laser vices is why I left the class after 20 years.

The bottom line is eventually all boats have to adapt/ change or die.
What we should be arguing about is the rate of change and how much change.
Not whether it should change at all .😕
What we should be arguing about is whether anyone has the right to decide what we should or should not be arguing about.
 

Xeon

Super Anarchist
1,104
630
England
What we should be arguing about is whether anyone has the right to decide what we should or should not be arguing about.
Please don’t misrepresent what I posted. I used the word should very carefully, it’s a suggestion NOT a instruction.
I expect better from you. 😕
Leave that sort of thing to Wess.
 
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tillerman

Super Anarchist
5,635
2,789
Rhode Island
Please don’t misrepresent what I posted. I used the word should very carefully, it’s a suggestion NOT a instruction.
I expect better from you. 😕
Leave that sort of thing to Wess.
I also used the word "should" very carefully.

"What we should be arguing about is whether anyone has the right to decide what we should or should not be arguing about."

That's NOT an instruction. It is a suggestion about a suggestion.
Stop jumping to conclusions.
I expect better from you.
Leave that sort of thing to Xeon.
 
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Xeon

Super Anarchist
1,104
630
England
I also used the word "should" very carefully.

"What we should be arguing about is whether anyone has the right to decide what we should or should not be arguing about."

That's NOT an instruction. It is a suggestion about a suggestion.
Stop jumping to conclusions.
I expect better from you.
Leave that sort of thing to Xeon.
Most of the times I really like what post .
Sometime you come across as self satisfied self important [email protected]@k.
It’s not too late for you to become a current Tory party cabinet minister .

Think it’s about time I did a ‘Gouv ‘ to this thread for a while . 😀
 

Bill5

Right now
2,900
2,441
Western Canada
But the class cannot split in two because of new rigs if your argument is correct as you have said the vast majority want to stay with class racing and will stay will ali rigs . If your correct all it would mean at worst is some 8’ rigs would have been sold into the uk for old gits like me to use py racing .

Don’t get me wrong I love strict one design boats, after all I am still sailing one ( just one with less vices ) .
BUT the Laser classes attitude ( summed up my most of your posts) to any kind of change however minor ( or inexpensive)to simply remove some of the laser vices is why I left the class after 20 years.

The bottom line is eventually all boats have to adapt/ change or die.
What we should be arguing about is the rate of change and how much change.
Not whether it should change at all .😕
Better racing, stronger fleets and fun communities trump all. The ILCA is showing no signs of dying nor does the Opti which is not exactly cutting edge. The Aeros and Bic whatever they ares provide nice options, but are really not impacting the ILCA or Opti classes.
 

Xeon

Super Anarchist
1,104
630
England
Totally agree , unfortunately. That was my original point. Which is why the new rigs were and are no threat to the standard and radial classes at this time while the ILCA is a Olympic class and nations have to buy into it at elite level.
If and when it loses that , then all bets of off and a market opens up in the uk and possibly in other countries too as it’s becomes a great way of making more money out of a old design.
Tbh you will be fine even if this did happen as Americans seem to love sailing old designs .
This is definitely my last comment on rigs 😀
 

Bill5

Right now
2,900
2,441
Western Canada
Totally agree , unfortunately. That was my original point. Which is why the new rigs were and are no threat to the standard and radial classes at this time while the ILCA is a Olympic class and nations have to buy into it at elite level.
If and when it loses that , then all bets of off and a market opens up in the uk and possibly in other countries too as it’s becomes a great way of making more money out of a old design.
Tbh you will be fine even if this did happen as Americans seem to love sailing old designs .
This is definitely my last comment on rigs 😀
Americans loving sailing old designs is certainly a generality, but Brits aren’t all exactly foiling. The top 10 classes based on Nationals participation are Opti, RS200, RS Tera, RS Feva, RS Aero, Supernova, Scorpion, Solo, Topper, ILCA. Nothing wildly modern in the lot.
 

Curious2

Anarchist
670
246
But the class cannot split in two because of new rigs if your argument is correct as you have said the vast majority want to stay with class racing and will stay will ali rigs . If your correct all it would mean at worst is some 8’ rigs would have been sold into the uk for old gits like me to use py racing .

Don’t get me wrong I love strict one design boats, after all I am still sailing one ( just one with less vices ) .
BUT the Laser classes attitude ( summed up my most of your posts) to any kind of change however minor ( or inexpensive)to simply remove some of the laser vices is why I left the class after 20 years.

The bottom line is eventually all boats have to adapt/ change or die.
What we should be arguing about is the rate of change and how much change.
Not whether it should change at all .😕

If the class officially adopts new rigs, then fleets must be split in two - there's no other way to adopt them.

The Laser class is NOT against change, as has been shown by your utterly incorrect earlier post. The Laser class has adopted similar change to the sports you listed, like hockey and pole vaulting. The Laser class has moved into carbon for objects just as those sports have moved into carbon for similar-type objects.

What the Laser class is against is change that makes the entire existing fleet obsolete, and that's a good thing because such changes do not ever appear to work in major OD classes, or not since 1920 or whenever the Stars adopted their new rig.

Personally I think there could be a few more minor changes to the class, as long as they don't significantly affect performance. Despite your utterly incorrect claim, I am NOT against all change - for example as I quite clearly noted I was for a major change in my other main class so any inference that I'm against change is utterly baseless. But changes to remove vices and issues are utterly different from changes to increase performance.
 

Xeon

Super Anarchist
1,104
630
England
Getting grumpy again? You virtually singlehandedly (see what I did there) killed off the Y&Y forum, try not to do that here too!
Utter tosh . I’ve only ever been rude to one man to man on y&y and that’s because he was and is a vile professional troll. And even then all I ever did was speak to him in the way he did to everyone that disagreed with him over the last 12 years and that’s why people left.
So please get your facts right .
 
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Xeon

Super Anarchist
1,104
630
England
If the class officially adopts new rigs, then fleets must be split in two - there's no other way to adopt them.

The Laser class is NOT against change, as has been shown by your utterly incorrect earlier post. The Laser class has adopted similar change to the sports you listed, like hockey and pole vaulting. The Laser class has moved into carbon for objects just as those sports have moved into carbon for similar-type objects.

What the Laser class is against is change that makes the entire existing fleet obsolete, and that's a good thing because such changes do not ever appear to work in major OD classes, or not since 1920 or whenever the Stars adopted their new rig.

Personally I think there could be a few more minor changes to the class, as long as they don't significantly affect performance. Despite your utterly incorrect claim, I am NOT against all change - for example as I quite clearly noted I was for a major change in my other main class so any inference that I'm against change is utterly baseless. But changes to remove vices and issues are utterly different from changes to increase performance.
I am happy for the continuing success of Laser class and happy too that you feel the class made the correct decision over the new rigs. Me , I will continue to feel it was a wasted opportunity.
More than happy to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
 
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Xeon

Super Anarchist
1,104
630
England
Americans loving sailing old designs is certainly a generality, but Brits aren’t all exactly foiling. The top 10 classes based on Nationals participation are Opti, RS200, RS Tera, RS Feva, RS Aero, Supernova, Scorpion, Solo, Topper, ILCA. Nothing wildly modern in the lot.
Very true , but at least half the list were designed after 1990 some even in this century 😂. And most have changed spec. Eg The Supernova changed to being built in epoxy about five years ago and reduced in minimum weight by 25lb and Solos being built in f.r.p for over a decade.
You have got me interested now . If you looked at the top ten dinghy classes in the USA how would it compare, design age wise ?
Am not trying to make a point or be a smart alex, I am just interested .😀

So looking at the uk list .( am only guessing so please correct me if I am wrong )
Optimist = 1940s
Solo and Scorpion = 1950s
Topper and I.CA = 1970s
RS200 and Supernova = 1990s
RS Feva and RS Tera = 2000s
RS Aero = 2010s
 
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Gouvernail

Lottsa people don’t know I’m famous
38,244
5,731
Austin Texas
Please note… I am THRILLED about the fact this thread has morphed into general mostly polite discussion about virtually anything Laser.
As long as we have a general deal among participants to also actually sail the boats, I believe this thread can generally rsise awareness’s, enthusiasm, and help more folks play the games.

This weekend there is a Radial worlds starting in Houston. I can proudly say I have helped a couple kids get their toys ready. I wish tgst nember coujd be fifty,

Also, we have a local regatta this weekend where Lasers have not had even a ten boat fleet in the last twenty years. 12 are already signed up.

Wurstfest is at the end of the month and it is always a fine event..

So.., please advocate for whatever you feel will best cause Laser sailing to prosper.,

Meanwhile, I shall continuing Ignoring this thread
 

Xeon

Super Anarchist
1,104
630
England
Just a sailor wishing you nutters would stop turning a grass roots class into an old age home for rich elites.
Lasers are no more expensive than they ever have been, taking inflation into account.
The problem is people in the USA and uk have less disposable income and I don’t think even YOU can blame the ILCA committee for that. 😀
 
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