Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

[Gouvernail]

Your “building from the bottom” is wishful revisionist history.
Very early in the promotion process the Laser Builder organized regattas with as many rock stars as they could entice.
The Laser was promoted as a boat where a person could buy one at the local dealer and have a chance to get on a race course, use identical equipment, and play with the best sailors in the world.
The fantasy of racing with the very best was the lure.
As numbers grew, local fleets started happening.
The carrot remained, Laser was the opportunity to race with the very best using identical equipment.

The REAL problem was, has been, and still is:

There simply isn’t any big money to be had building, distributing, and selling Lasers.

Any place that can serve as a sailboat dealership could be used to make way more money selling something else. The amount of effort and expertise necessary to run a sailboat dealership far exceeds the necessary knowledge and effort necessary to sell Runabouts or virtually any other product.

Selling sailboats is generally accomplished as a hobby by people who make their money doing something else.

 

[RobbieB]

Your “building from the bottom” is wishful revisionist history.
Very early in the promotion process the Laser Builder organized regattas with as many rock stars as they could entice.
The Laser was promoted as a boat where a person could buy one at the local dealer and have a chance to get on a race course, use identical equipment, and play with the best sailors in the world.
The fantasy of racing with the very best was the lure.
As numbers grew, local fleets started happening.
The carrot remained, Laser was the opportunity to race with the very best using identical equipment.

The REAL problem was, has been, and still is:

There simply isn’t any big money to be had building, distributing, and selling Lasers.

Any place that can serve as a sailboat dealership could be used to make way more money selling something else. The amount of effort and expertise necessary to run a sailboat dealership far exceeds the necessary knowledge and effort necessary to sell Runabouts or virtually any other product.

Selling sailboats is generally accomplished as a hobby by people who make their money doing something else.

100% true! Every Laser I've ever bought came from a shop that was either 1- a full service marine repair shop, or 2- a dealership that sold multiple lines of boats and was basically a west marine inside. I'm not aware of any "2's" that exist in the sailing industry anymore. The internet and death of sailboat dealers killed it. From my understanding the current builders make it difficult for independent dealers to make hardly any money selling the new ILCA's. Particularly when you can go straight to the builder and get them at the same price. My local area dealer can offer better deals because myself, (and others) have acted as his regatta "mule" and it saves folks on the shipping charges!

 

[Wess]

Oh brother... here come the ILCA Nazis with their propaganda.

 

[Bill5]

Good generally speaking. Increased access without increasing cost. And didn't dilute the class as much as it opened the boat and class to a large group that otherwise could not realistically sail it. Even more so with the radial.

I am trying to picture the typical sailors of the Radial and 4.7 sailing a boat with the original Laser controls. Nope. Can’t see it.

 

[RobbieB]

Time for this one again.

View attachment 545114

When was the last time you went frostbiting in soaked cotton sweatsuit covered with Line 7 foul weather pants and a big, wet, wool sweater? Now THOSE were the days! Let's ditch all the comfortable, close fitting new sailing gear too.

 

[RobbieB]

But here is the thing. None of them are taking over the world. Because none of them do anything that matters to most club level grass roots sailors. All those "better" than Laser boats are 1.) more expensive, 2.) more fragile, 3.) more complex. By miles and miles. All of that limits or diminishes access for grass roots sailors at the club level. All those "better" boats are aimed at a market of rich elites (and we wonder why the sport of sailing is dying).

100% agree with the above.

Sadly and stupidly your ILCA committee of self serving tools also abandoned grass roots sailors and targeted the same group of rich elites and so now we watch Laser turn into an expensive, fragile, OD but not really, ILCA. Just follow the money.

I have to question the "Fragile" part. My 21 yr old Vanguard hull and blades are still plenty competitive on a District and GP event level. P.S. there's not a lot of money on any side of this particular class. I had a little insight into the ILCA - NA Chairman position recently and it ain't no party position.

Laser used to be great because it was 1.) affordable (ie cheap), 2.) robust, 3.) simple, 4.) strictly and practically OD, and 5.) had a class focused on growing from the bottom. You can lie and BS all you want but any idiot that can fog a mirror knows that this is not what the ILCA is or what the ILCA is about. They abandoned grass roots sailors long ago.

Comparatively speaking it's still the best, (really just based on unbeatable numbers/volume) and cheapest ride in town. Especially the used market, (which drives the grass roots sailing). Grass Roots should be driven at the local/District level. The national class office holds NA district Zoom meetings. The last one I was on only 7 district secretaries attended, but it was great to hear what everyone does and share ideas. That's STILL a part of this great class, but if you're not involved, (a class member) or kept informed, (by being a class member or contacting your district secretary or just checking out the website) then you have no one to blame but yourself.

PS - Never left Robbie. Just a lot of extended family health issue that I needed to assist with and focus on. That and a twerp or two or three (who aint) who left your neck of the woods, went to and ripped up Kirby's, and will soon head to Pearl. Those cheap LPEs sure do get around an fit right in no plaque required LOL!!

I hear you on the family health stuff. Hang in there. As for the ILCA the best thing that ever happened was sticking a fork in the LPE relationship.

 

[Xeon]

You are constantly disagreeable and unwilling to listen. I see you have done the same on some FB sailing pages too. To the point where people stop engaging. But whatever, you sail a minority boat on an inconsequential pond in a format that nobody uses, so you aren’t speaking for the masses.

The ILCA boat and class association is definitely better for having Ovington (and others) involved, but the route there was morally dubious. I’ve still not had a decent answer to why I have to import the Allen blocks rather than go to my local chandlery. If I have to do that why not cut the middleman out and buy directly from Allen?

So it was you that posted the fake plaque idea 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Now I understand. 😀😀😀

 

[Bored Stiff]

No, that wasn’t me. But thank you for demonstrating my point.

 

[Xeon]

No, that wasn’t me. But thank you for demonstrating my point.

The pleasure is all mine 😀

 

[CHASAX]

Ordered a Sunfish last week. Will be late January before I will receive it. They are selling them faster than they can get them. It this normal for Sunfish? It is very close to the former Laser price.
Are more casual sailors going to the Sunfish rather than the Laser?

 

[Blue One]

The fact you can order one is a improvement . At least you don’t have to wait until after the worlds to pick up a ex charter boat .
There doesn’t seem to any down turn in the new ILCA market ( certainly in the uk ovingtons are selling every ILCA they can make and have had to drop other classes to meet demand ) .
Perhaps it’s just LP have sorted they own supply problems and can now supply the the Sunfish market that has been starved of boats for the last couple of years .

 

[tillerman]

Ordered a Sunfish last week. Will be late January before I will receive it. They are selling them faster than they can get them. It this normal for Sunfish? It is very close to the former Laser price.
Are more casual sailors going to the Sunfish rather than the Laser?

The Sunfish is still a very popular dinghy for racing in New England - helped partly by an influx of former college sailors from the University of Connecticut. And, yes, more casual sailors, who are not interested in racing, favor the Sunfish over the Laser.

From what I hear it is normal these days to have a long wait for a new Sunfish, and for parts.

 

[Wavedancer II]

The move to Portugal hasn't made LP any smarter, business wise.

 

[AnIdiot]

I am trying to picture the typical sailors of the Radial and 4.7 sailing a boat with the original Laser controls. Nope. Can’t see it.

This is a very important point.

 

[tillerman]

I am trying to picture the typical sailors of the Radial and 4.7 sailing a boat with the original Laser controls. Nope. Can’t see it.

The Laser Radial was introduced in 1982.
The major improvement to Laser controls was approved in 2001.
https://www.sailingworld.com/how-to/controlling-lasers-new-controls/

 

[tillerman]

And here is another article about the 3:1 vang. (Note the date.)

https://sailinganarchy.com/2019/03/31/31-is-all-it-took/

 

[AnIdiot]

Both small rigs and usable controls are needed for kids transitioning out of Toppers/Splashes/Starlings etc. I don't know that it matters what order the adoptions happened?

 

[tillerman]

Both small rigs and usable controls are needed for kids transitioning out of Toppers/Splashes/Starlings etc. I don't know that it matters what order the adoptions happened?

I agree. What is surprising is that took 19 years before someone rescued Radial sailors from the 3:1 vang.

 

[Blue One]

And here is another article about the 3:1 vang. (Note the date.)

https://sailinganarchy.com/2019/03/31/31-is-all-it-took/

I do like satire . 😀😀

 

[Wess]

I agree. What is surprising is that took 19 years before someone rescued Radial sailors from the 3:1 vang.

LOL I don’t think most here will get that one but well done!!