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Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch
- Thread starter Otterbox
- Start date
Benja
Member
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Minutes of that meeting haven't been published yet, but there's the hint:
http://sailingforums.com/threads/all-about-to-kick-off.27967/page-16#post-133087
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Bruce Hudson
Super Anarchist
New molds and new sail patterns?
It's a HOAX!
And Kirby's propaganda... again..
Just zoom in the original picture.
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Where was that boat made? One of the new builders in Canada or Europe? Or is it just a PSA hull with a Torch logo stuck on it?
Bruce Hudson
Super Anarchist
ojfd, I'm not sure where you are coming from, but I understand where the people behind the Torch (and it's not just Kirby) are. I believe that these are not new molds and that Bruno is mistaken.New molds and new sail patterns?
It's a HOAX!
And Kirby's propaganda... again..
Just zoom in the original picture.
To me, it's clear that if you take the existing Laser, make some cosmetic changes, it makes a Torch as described. So even if it was a PSA manufactured boat (and nowhere is it claimed to be anything other than what it is), then it still is within the Torch concept.
I have a request for you ojfd, since you said "And Kirby's propaganda... again..". Can you please outline exactly what you say is Kirby's propaganda? I believe that you are insinuating that Kirby is spreading mistruths (if I have it wrong, please let me know and I will apologise). From where I sit, and I have reviewed a heck of a lot of documentation over the last couple of years, while I can find evidence of the ILCA and Kirby talking past eachother, nowhere can I find evidence of Kirby spreading mistruths. I can find a little evidence of the ILCA spreading mistruths, however there is evidence also supports that this may not have been deliberate (see earlier post on the legal advice).
So ojfd, if you were able to lay out exactly what mistruths Kirby is spreading in detail, ideally quoting sources, point by point outlining what the Kirby claim is and why it's misleading, I will take up the challenge and use my own sources to publicly agree or disagree with whether Kirby has been using propaganda. Currently, my feeling is that he isn't - but convince me otherwise!
- Bruce.
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And this?
http://www.westcorksailing.com/usedboatsforsale.htm
or this:
http://www.claysails.com/index.php?q=gallery&g2_itemId=1511
http://www.westcorksailing.com/usedboatsforsale.htm
or this:
http://www.claysails.com/index.php?q=gallery&g2_itemId=1511
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I just hope that the 60,000 pounds that the ILCA paid their lawyers for advice on the fundamental rule change was well spent.
Maybe they could spend a few hundred pounds and use it to inform the members, who ultimately are the ones who pay their salaries and expenses, what exactly is going on.
It would seem to me that with so little information being shared with members and so much money being spent, if it all falls apart some of these men could have a great career in politics.
Keep them in the dark and be completely unaccountable to the people who actually pay the bills seems to be the modern mantra of good governance...
Maybe they could spend a few hundred pounds and use it to inform the members, who ultimately are the ones who pay their salaries and expenses, what exactly is going on.
It would seem to me that with so little information being shared with members and so much money being spent, if it all falls apart some of these men could have a great career in politics.
Keep them in the dark and be completely unaccountable to the people who actually pay the bills seems to be the modern mantra of good governance...
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Oz Scout Sailor
Member
Actually ojfd, not necessarily a hoax, although it is propaganda as are the statements put forward by ILCA. I would classify this more as marketing a new product.
If Kirby is using the same CM for Kirby Torch as for the Laser (as he holds or believes he hold the copyright on the CM) then a new mold could conceiveably be used for either the Torch or the Laser. This would make it safe financially for PSA to invest in the mold, as no matter how the lawsuit goes down, they could still use it to produce class legal hulls for either.
As for the ISAF plaque. Mistakes happen when you are cross manufacturing on the same production line. I once saw a bike manufactured by Giant for Trek. They made the same bike on the line; some were branded Giant, some Trek. This bike was a mistake and had the Giant logo at the front but Trek everywhere else.
As for the sail. Again because Kirby has said that the class will grandfather existing class legal Lasers into the Torch, any Laser class legal sails can also come across, including ones with a Brasilian flag on them. Notice in the second photo its a non Laser marked sail. I dare say that the spars are the same.
If Kirby is using the same CM for Kirby Torch as for the Laser (as he holds or believes he hold the copyright on the CM) then a new mold could conceiveably be used for either the Torch or the Laser. This would make it safe financially for PSA to invest in the mold, as no matter how the lawsuit goes down, they could still use it to produce class legal hulls for either.
As for the ISAF plaque. Mistakes happen when you are cross manufacturing on the same production line. I once saw a bike manufactured by Giant for Trek. They made the same bike on the line; some were branded Giant, some Trek. This bike was a mistake and had the Giant logo at the front but Trek everywhere else.
As for the sail. Again because Kirby has said that the class will grandfather existing class legal Lasers into the Torch, any Laser class legal sails can also come across, including ones with a Brasilian flag on them. Notice in the second photo its a non Laser marked sail. I dare say that the spars are the same.
Surf-n-Turf
Member
Those were not the ISAF plaques. They are silvery and on the other side of the cockpit. See for yourselves. http://www.claysails.com/index.php?q=gallery&g2_itemId=1511
Surf-n-Turf
Member
I present you the sticker from the back of the cockpit on my 2006 boat:
Now an extreme blowup from the pre-Photoshop image of Scheidt's Torch:
Pray tell where does it say ISAF? Torched Lasers come from the same mold. Hell, my boat no longer has a Laser logo on it after all the repairs.
Ok, not ISAF plaques, laser stickers. Point being that it is a laser hull that he stuck decals on, nothing particularly exciting about it and I'm surprised that it's taken so long for someone to post a photo of such...
The only bit I find fishy about the photos is that it's meant to demonstrate that specifically torch hulls are being produced when really it's a laser, it even has the laser sticker. I'd give a touch more credit if they had built the hull and only applied the torch graphics, the laser sticker smells of desperation...
The only bit I find fishy about the photos is that it's meant to demonstrate that specifically torch hulls are being produced when really it's a laser, it even has the laser sticker. I'd give a touch more credit if they had built the hull and only applied the torch graphics, the laser sticker smells of desperation...
