Lithium Power Packs Connected To Shore Power System

[kent_island_sailor]

My best guess is with boats like ours (under 30 feet) is the days of them being sold new with gas outboards is limited. I think increasingly boats in this size range are going to be equipped with electric outboards and the necessary batteries to run them.

So, your power pack idea, probably not exactly as you have it, but I think we will see bigger and better batteries and the associated charging equipment and inverters to go with it.

My trailer sailer is all electric. Solar, Lithium house battery, plus the Torqeedo battery. A bit like you, when RVing I remove the battery and solar system from the boat and put it on the travel trailer and also use it around home when the power goes out, easy to do, because when the boats not in use, it's parked in the drive way.

BTW, the lithium batteries in your Torqeedos are probably not LFP depending what model you may have Lithium-NMC or Lithium NCA and there are people safely using Torqeedos all over the place, so the talk suggesting LFP being the only lithium battery system that is used on boats isn't really the case.

Non LFP Torqeedo batteries are widely used in both commercial and recreational boats. If you buy a new electric Beneteau Oceanis 30.1, it's probably coming with Torqeedo batteries.

Important Safety Warning: Possible Fire Risk With Torqeedo Outboard Motor Batteries "Travel" and "Ultralight"

Torqeedo has determined a possible safety risk in connection with the batteries of the outboard motors "Travel" and "Ultralight": There is a possible leak in the battery housing, therefore it cannot be ruled out that water may penetrate into the battery housing. There is a corresponding risk in...

panbo.com

My batteries will not only not light on fire if wet, it won't even hurt them Just sayin..........

 

[TBW]

Important Safety Warning: Possible Fire Risk With Torqeedo Outboard Motor Batteries "Travel" and "Ultralight"

Torqeedo has determined a possible safety risk in connection with the batteries of the outboard motors "Travel" and "Ultralight": There is a possible leak in the battery housing, therefore it cannot be ruled out that water may penetrate into the battery housing. There is a corresponding risk in...

panbo.com

My batteries will not only not light on fire if wet, it won't even hurt them Just sayin..........

This was a recall on some of the batteries on older travel series batteries for models that have been discontinued. I had an early Torqeedo and wasn't very impressed with it in general. I have a newer one (2021) and the overall quality is much better

 

[Grith]

My best guess is with boats like ours (under 30 feet) is the days of them being sold new with gas outboards is limited. I think increasingly boats in this size range are going to be equipped with electric outboards and the necessary batteries to run them.

So, your power pack idea, probably not exactly as you have it, but I think we will see bigger and better batteries and the associated charging equipment and inverters to go with it.

My trailer sailer is all electric. Solar, Lithium house battery, plus the Torqeedo battery. A bit like you, when RVing I remove the battery and solar system from the boat and put it on the travel trailer and also use it around home when the power goes out, easy to do, because when the boats not in use, it's parked in the drive way.

BTW, the lithium batteries in your Torqeedos are probably not LFP depending what model you may have Lithium-NMC or Lithium NCA and there are people safely using Torqeedos all over the place, so the talk suggesting LFP being the only lithium battery system that is used on boats isn't really the case.

Non LFP Torqeedo batteries are widely used in both commercial and recreational boats. If you buy a new electric Beneteau Oceanis 30.1, it's probably coming with Torqeedo batteries.

Well I was a relatively early adopter of electric outboards.
My ex had several articles published in various print media including sailing magazines in the late 90’s with us using a trolling motor as an ancillary outboard on a small plywood Jarcat 6 (20 foot) catamaran.
We had an 18hp tohatsu which allowed the Jarcat to plane at 12-14knots loaded for extended cruising but used the trolling motor which was mounted beside it in one of the two portable fuel tank wells for powering the yacht quietly in calm conditions or in headwind sections when sailing on twisting inland rivers.
These days I use a torqeedo mounted with remote throttle on the stern of my large trailerable yacht for exactly the same purpose.
This yacht is also equipped with a huge outboard for very occasional use to run for cover, cross rivermouth bars, run over high tidal flows or power over fast flowing river pinches.
The torqeedo also unships and is my dingy outboard for occasional use yacht to yacht at anchor or ship to shore.
I can often just beach my 1 foot draft yacht directly onshore again getting in very shallow using the torqeedo for the last bit.
If the torqeedo pushes it onshore the outboard in shallow water drive can generally get it back off ( being careful about tides).
Whilst big electric outboards are under development they are not cost or range effective just yet.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

Electric outboards are far from a new thing, they have been in use in plenty of lakes and reservoirs for decades.

Home - Ray Electric Outboards, Inc. We don't troll-- we motor!

The most reliable electric motor since 1973. Powerful, but quiet.

rayeo.com

A buddy of mine has one of these on a pontoon boat.

 

[Grith]

Electric outboards are far from a new thing, they have been in use in plenty of lakes and reservoirs for decades.

Home - Ray Electric Outboards, Inc. We don't troll-- we motor!

The most reliable electric motor since 1973. Powerful, but quiet.

rayeo.com

A buddy of mine has one of these on a pontoon boat.

Thanks Never actually seen this brand here in Australia!
I have been using Minkota and other trolling motor brands since back in the eighties but haven’t seen or heard of that manufacturer.
I will investigate as more recent outboards as distinct from trolling motors have all been very expensive to date.
I was using shade tolerant unisolar hard and flexible panels back well over 20 years ago to assist recharging on tiny trailerables.
Now solar panels have come way down in size, weight and price and lithium batteries also in price lowering weight carrying constraints I have been reviewing upsizing from the torqeedo 1003 ( now 1103 ) but was waiting for larger more cost effective options.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

Thanks Never actually seen this brand here in Australia!
I have been using Minkota and other trolling motor brands since back in the eighties but haven’t seen or heard of that manufacturer.
I will investigate as more recent outboards as distinct from trolling motors have all been very expensive to date.
I was using shade tolerant unisolar hard and flexible panels back well over 20 years ago to assist recharging on tiny trailerables.
Now solar panels have come way down in size, weight and price and lithium batteries also in price lowering weight carrying constraints I have been reviewing upsizing from the torqeedo 1003 ( now 1103 ) but was waiting for larger more cost effective options.

75 pounds and 20 HP equivalent at 300 pounds thrust - not sure how much BS that is or not but that is a lot - doesn't sound too bad.

https://rayeo.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Specifications-2021.pdf

Looks like their "HP equivalent" is roughly double the actual power used, so not quite sure what to make of that.

 

[Grith]

75 pounds and 20 HP equivalent at 300 pounds thrust - not sure how much BS that is or not but that is a lot - doesn't sound too bad.

https://rayeo.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Specifications-2021.pdf

Looks like their "HP equivalent" is roughly double the actual power used, so not quite sure what to make of that.

Yes not too sure why if successful I have never heard of them here in Australia or on many forums either.
Having checked their prices now you would want to be fairly confident in them as between buying their outboard, shipping it here and getting an adequate sized battery pack in lithium you could easily be into AUS $15-20,000 plus I feel.
You would also be completely without easy backup/warranty support here.
A brand new torqeedo 1103 with battery and charger is under AUS $4000 here in Australia and e propulsion are cheaper again and are looking fairly good.
Both brands have bigger options available.

 

[Startracker]

Performance when exposed to damp salt air could be an issue for some people. On some smaller boats especially cruising in oceans involves constant exposure to damp salt air and I am not sure if the EcoFlow is designed for that.

If they market it for marine use or if they design a marine version, I think they have a better chance of gaining some market share. The concept seems sound. Package the batteries, the solar charge controller, the inverter all in one package. Less system design for the people building or refitting the yacht.

Some manufacturers are making an IP67 rated one, which to my mind is sufficiently better to be worth considering. Also side note because I can see your last message as I write this, the lithium batteries implicated in fires are generally not Lifepo4, but are higher capacity/higher charge and discharge rates, LiMN, LiPoly etc. Divers lights, e-bikes, other e-things etc all have a nasty habit of starting fires. It's one of the reasons I am sticking to Lifepo4 and possibly LTO. I have seen many test results of Lifepo4 batteries including water exposure and penetrating impact without fire. I've read every report of lithium battery involved fires and have yet to find one that points to a lifepo4 as a source of ignition. Not to say that electrical fires WITH lifepo4 batteries haven't occured, but every report I've found that includes that tends to be inadequate fusing and a fire that started downstream of the bank(circuits/appliances). Despite that I plan to try and set mine up with a direct vent to outside from the box, a port where fire suppressant can be introduced and a relatively easy procedure to remove and dump overboard if needed.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

Yes not too sure why if successful I have never heard of them here in Australia or on many forums either.
Having checked their prices now you would want to be fairly confident in them as between buying their outboard, shipping it here and getting an adequate sized battery pack in lithium you could easily be into AUS $15-20,000 plus I feel.
You would also be completely without easy backup/warranty support here.
A brand new torqeedo 1103 with battery and charger is under AUS $4000 here in Australia and e propulsion are cheaper again and are looking fairly good.
Both brands have bigger options available.

Their market is not dinghies, they sell mostly to people with boats on electric-only lakes and reservoirs. This is a thing in the USA, for some odd reason the managers of water used for drinking don't want gas and oil in it.
If you look through the docs, they are pretty simple machines and come with a good schematic and trouble shooting info. They look pretty easy to fix DIY.
FYI some other electric motors

Four Electric Boat Motors Compared | Boating Mag

Boating Magazine's BoatingLAB Director, Randy Vance, compares four electric marine motors, from primary propulsion to trolling and auxiliary use.

www.boatingmag.com

 

[Grith]

Their market is not dinghies, they sell mostly to people with boats on electric-only lakes and reservoirs. This is a thing in the USA, for some odd reason the managers of water used for drinking don't want gas and oil in it.
If you look through the docs, they are pretty simple machines and come with a good schematic and trouble shooting info. They look pretty easy to fix DIY.
FYI some other electric motors

Four Electric Boat Motors Compared | Boating Mag

Boating Magazine's BoatingLAB Director, Randy Vance, compares four electric marine motors, from primary propulsion to trolling and auxiliary use.

www.boatingmag.com

Thanks 🙂 I have done a fair bit of research myself. The only mention Ray gets however is from a consumer wondering why Ray wasn’t mentioned!
I just hadn’t heard of them whilst I was aware of the others.
Just the cost of the larger units combined with their battery costs are still out there so perhaps a little longer wait for improvements and cost reduction is still in order.

 

[Grith]

Just a note for those above concerned about my current EcoFlow Delta Max portable Lithium battery chemistry.
EcoFlow have just announced upgrading these units to LFP chemistry improving safety and lifecycles along with improving several other functions as well.
I just need to wait until they bother to make an Australian version now which generally seems to take some time. 🙂