Looking forward to the invention of cleats in Canada

IStream

Super Anarchist
10,715
2,921
Three posts and already self-identified as an asshole. Last I checked, a line can pick up splinters when looped around wood at least as well as when tied to it.

 

Alex W

Super Anarchist
3,301
292
Seattle, WA
I wonder if old fire hose as a moveable "chafe guard" is the best way to handle that.  I have 20' left of the stuff and might as well try it next time I'm up there. 

I share in DDW's hatred of splintery bull rails.  The metal ones are just as bad because they are normally mostly rust.

DDW: are you at least having better wind?  This week is an exception (at least in Seattle), but so far there has been decent wind a lot of this summer. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Breamerly

Member
398
110
Three posts and already self-identified as an asshole. Last I checked, a line can pick up splinters when looped around wood at least as well as when tied to it.
Two posts, thanks, unless you count accidental double posts that I can't figure out how to delete.

Honestly, I've never had a problem with splinters. Maybe I've just gotten lucky with smooth ones?

 

IStream

Super Anarchist
10,715
2,921
Depends on the rail, depends on the line. The heavily used rails tend to be smoother and three strand nylon doesn't seem to pick up as many splinters as double braid.

 

Breamerly

Member
398
110
Jammer Six said:
That way, your boat shifts back and forth with the current.
I mean, I guess it does, if you don't set your lines to pull into the corners of the rail supports?

Honestly, I was just teasing a bit with my post. I admit they're marginally (marginally) less convenient than a well-placed cleat. If there's a legion that's determined to hate them with burning passion, and for whom this is the preoccupying annoyance of sailing (rather than say, Bros on Bayliners dragging through the moorage) I'm not trying to unseat your godhead.

 

TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
5,665
2,081
rather than have these things chew your dock lines, why not just make a loop from 2 feet of old line, pass it around the rail and back through itself, then moor to that?

Dispose of the loop when it gets too  full of splinters
 

 

TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
5,665
2,081
When you are paying more than a buck a foot a night I don't think it's unreasonable to expect decent cleats on the dock.
The world is full of injustices.  Fix 'em when we can, but meanwhile try to minimise the damage they do to us

 

Autonomous

Super Anarchist
3,952
1,253
PNW
Not being able to lasso a cleat with your spring as you land, what a hardship. 

I used to hate bullrails and rings, too, until someone leaned over and whispered, "you don't tie to it, you pass under it and bring your line back aboard."
Most people do it that way but I can't bring myself to. I want my lines to have some give and spring to them so's I lead 'em fore & aft as if there were cleats. 

 

Ajax

Super Anarchist
14,376
2,726
Edgewater, MD
rather than have these things chew your dock lines, why not just make a loop from 2 feet of old line, pass it around the rail and back through itself, then moor to that?

Dispose of the loop when it gets too  full of splinters
 
Don't go bringing good ideas into this.

 

valis

Super Anarchist
3,773
597
Friday Harbor, WA
The rails are a nuisance, not a tragedy.  And yes, there are ways to make them work a little better.  The point is that cleats, reasonably spaced along the dock, are so much nicer.  The point is also that we enjoy making fun of rails.

 

DDW

Super Anarchist
6,240
972
When you are paying more than a buck a foot a night I don't think it's unreasonable to expect decent cleats on the dock.
$2.50/ft/night in some of the marinas up here in season.

I wonder if old fire hose as a moveable "chafe guard" is the best way to handle that.  I have 20' left of the stuff and might as well try it next time I'm up there. 

DDW: are you at least having better wind?  This week is an exception (at least in Seattle), but so far there has been decent wind a lot of this summer. 
Trouble with chafe guard is there is no way to get in on the line till the damage is done. On a bull rail, you MUST loop something around it and draw it tight. By the time you have threaded the line through something, positioned it, repositioned it as you sweat the line in, your boat has drifted away.

Still no wind. We put the sails up everyday, sometimes we get an hour with the engine off. Today nearly 2 hours tacking up the Cordero channel in 5-6 knots but it was OK - the slack at the rapids was at 7 AM so we had plenty of time. Then the wind died to 0.5. 

I mean, I guess it does, if you don't set your lines to pull into the corners of the rail supports?
The same people who tell me this argue that cleats are never where you need them. You can't have it both ways. Rail supports are never were you need them. Also, now your lines are chafing over the end grain of the rail supports, an even more splintery wonderland. 

Just buy a bunch of goddamn cleats and put them on the dock. Even bull rails made of the finest polished teak still suffer from a fatal design flaw: you cannot adjust the lines quickly and easily. I have seen about 10 different hitch variations tied by lifetime wharfingers. Adjusting any of them requires untying them and retying them. I can adjust all four dock lines on cleats and have a beer in the time it takes a lifer to adjust one line tied to a bull rail. 

No, I will not be swayed. I will not rest until the scourge is lifted from the earth. 

 

Jim in Halifax

Super Anarchist
1,490
590
Nova Scotia
...Even bull rails made of the finest polished teak still suffer from a fatal design flaw: you cannot adjust the lines quickly and easily. I have seen about 10 different hitch variations tied by lifetime wharfingers. Adjusting any of them requires untying them and retying them. I can adjust all four dock lines on cleats and have a beer in the time it takes a lifer to adjust one line tied to a bull rail.
Whether tied to a bull rail or a fancy-smancy cleat, bollard, or whatever, the best way to adjust lines is using the cleats on your own boat. The loop or fixed end of your dock line goes on the dock, the other end is adjusted as required on board. Because you don't even have to hop down to dock level, you never risk spilling so much as a drop of your beer or gin and tonic...

 

TwoLegged

Super Anarchist
5,665
2,081
No, I will not be swayed. I will not rest until the scourge is lifted from the earth. 
Good to know that you aren't frittering away your three-score-and-ten on trivial issues like the risk of nuclear war in Korea ;)

 
Top