Luna Rossa Challenge. AC 36

[enigmatically2]

Hardly an original manoeuvre, in boats with spinnaker's they were just called drop-tacks.

Not as fun as gybe-drop-tacks.

Common anywhere with tide, e.g. solent

 

[Stingray~]

Hardly an original manoeuvre, in boats with spinnaker's they were just called drop-tacks.

Not as fun as gybe-drop-tacks.

Common anywhere with tide, e.g. solent

Cool, but: At 50 knots? They look impressive when AC75’s pull them off cleanly, a few got gnarly during the recent ACWS. 

 

[idontwan2know]

LR and to a lesser degree AM both struggled with going slow and touching down on the upwind mark roundings. Will be something to watch today.

 

[MastaVonBlasta]

It seems LR have used a new foil on the port side in racing on Day 2

I couldn't find any good photos so I've taken some screenshots from the race TV feed







For quick comparison here's a shot of the preciously seen design, used on starboard side 

 

[The Main Man]

^ they said in commentary they were running a different foil. Didn’t think they were allowed to change given all previous discussions.

 

[MastaVonBlasta]

Some more pics from Gilles Martin-Raget gallery 

https://www.martin-raget.com/folio/2634/media/8O762ETCQ78P120C8N748Y/yachting-nzl-amcup.html

 

[MaxHugen]

It seems LR have used a new foil on the port side in racing on Day 2

I couldn't find any good photos so I've taken some screenshots from the race TV feed

View attachment 421638

Noticed this foil a few weeks ago, looks like the same one. In the pic below it's the lower one. Appears to have a slightly wider flap, and a very distinct elliptical profile, as your pic also shows:



Not sure, may have been Weta that took the pic?

 

[JALhazmat]

So the little bump tail bit in the center that appeared in the INEOS foils after modification appears here too. Certainly the GMT first pic looks like it but the subsequent ones show it as almost the bottom of the foil arm. Does that mean the foils are more forward in their positioning? 

still not sure how the foil change happens though? I thought they were locked in with one set? 
 

if Prada have moved to their biggest foils and are now on them ( locked in) for tomorrow’s breeze that could be a bit of a test if it blows through 

 

[MaxHugen]

^ they said in commentary they were running a different foil. Didn’t think they were allowed to change given all previous discussions.

In the RRs they have to declare the boat config 2 days before the race. Then 5 days for the Prada final, as well as the Cup itself.

 

[MastaVonBlasta]

In the RRs they have to declare the boat config 2 days before the race. Then 5 days for the Prada final, as well as the Cup itself.

From what I have seen they had to declare configuration on the 13th for three days of racing happening now. 

I'll look up some pics from Day 1 - maybe they had this foil on and no one noticed

 

[MaxHugen]

^  "... and no one noticed ..."   What, in SA?  Even the seagulls are monitored here!

 

[MaxHugen]

if Prada have moved to their biggest foils and are now on them ( locked in) for tomorrow’s breeze that could be a bit of a test if it blows through 

Maybe they've worked some fluid magic with their foils...  I first noticed an unusual concave leeward side curve on the trailing area of a sail in some top down pics, but wrote it off as a tight leech. Then again in a pic of LR's foil flap:



And then again yesterday when I picked up a bird's feather...



Maybe I just have OCD.  :wacko:

 

[sfigone]

It seems LR have used a new foil on the port side in racing on Day 2

So the new foil on the port side is used when on starboard, ie when JS is helming.   

I wonder how much of that is just the preference of the Helm, ie are FB's numbers better with one foil and JS's better with the other??? 

Or is it more that they can have a wider range for their foils?   Ie was there one side or the other that they preferred to attempt a takeoff?  I saw a link to a page full of charts of the boat data, but I've lost it.... if somebody can find that for me, I'll try to work it out.

Or is it still just development, and they need more data to compare their foils.    I think they have 1 more set they can build?

In tough conditions like day 2, I think having 2 helms has to help a little as you can decompress and do a mini mental review of your performance before taking it back and going again!   I know I've been in plenty of light/fluky air races when having just 30 seconds to breath, look around and refocus would have helped.

 

[Xlot]

Incidentally, in the Italian TV commentary the Persico guy confirmed that foils are steel, machined by another firm nearby. Except for the third set that, if I understood correctly, has been machined in NZ but still under the supervision of the same Italian firm

 

[IPLore]

Will you be continuing with two helmsmen (Jimmy Spithill and Francesco Bruni)?
Yes, certainly, that's the way we work and we're pleased with it. It allows us to be flexible and react quickly in terms of tactics and strategy and in particular in close contact racing. This causes a big challenge communicating with one another, so that the one not on tack, who is in charge of the foil can concentrate on how the boat flies, while having a good idea of what it will be like when he is back at the helm.

Will someone articulate for me why this alternating helms is going to work. pros and cons?

 

[sfigone]

Will someone articulate for me why this alternating helms is going to work. pros and cons?

IMHO:

Pros,

• You get kind of 2 boat testing as you can compare side to side. The data and competition will drive performance of both helm and foil control.
  
• less running around on the boat. 
  
• focus'd helm during manoeuvres.
  
• Two minds contribute to strategy and execution
  
• Helms get moments to decompress a little and perhaps a little less red mist descends when things go bad. 
  

Cons

• Each helm has only half the practise time
  
• Less continuity of strategy
  
• Jimmy can't understand it when they say "Porca Miseria!"
  
• If one helm is better than the other than you end up sub optimal.  But if data showed that consistently, then they would change helms
  

 

[winchfodder]

IMHO:

Pros,

• You get kind of 2 boat testing as you can compare side to side. The data and competition will drive performance of both helm and foil control.
  
• less running around on the boat. 
  
• focus'd helm during manoeuvres.
  
• Two minds contribute to strategy and execution
  
• Helms get moments to decompress a little and perhaps a little less red mist descends when things go bad. 
  

Cons

• Each helm has only half the practise time
  
• Less continuity of strategy
  
• Jimmy can't understand it when they say "Porca Miseria!"
  
• If one helm is better than the other than you end up sub optimal.  But if data showed that consistently, then they would change helms
  

I can see the advantage about time running around the boat. First avoids falling over, second continuity of control and observation as things are moving so fast. 

Surely best to just go with the numbers. Look at VMG over several days and then choose the fastest. 

 

[IPLore]

IMHO:

Pros,

• You get kind of 2 boat testing as you can compare side to side. The data and competition will drive performance of both helm and foil control. Once they have gathered the data......then should they switch to one as helm and one as tactics?
  
• I do see the advantage in building tactical skills because someone who has helmed extensively may make a better tactician because they have a feel for what the boat can do.
  
• less running around on the boat. Yes but not sure how significant that is.
  
• focus'd helm during manoeuvres.
  
• Two minds contribute to strategy and execution Yes. But how is that different from Ben and Giles.Helm and tactician
  
• Helms get moments to decompress a little and perhaps a little less red mist descends when things go bad. 
  

Cons

• Each helm has only half the practise time
  
• Less continuity of strategy
  
• Jimmy can't understand it when they say "Porca Miseria!"
  
• If one helm is better than the other than you end up sub optimal.  But if data showed that consistently, then they would change helms  If we assume both as good as each other, then the question is simply , would either one of them be better if one of them just helmed and one just did tactics. 
  

They have obviously given it a lot of thought and decided it works.......unless they are both good and didnt want to hurt feelings.

What they may do is study which combo works best and not based on who is better driver.  For example they might decide that Francesco drives , not because e is better driver but because Jimmy has been doing better tactically and they want him looking aroud or vice versa Jimmy may end up driving because FB has better tactical skills.

 

[Horn Rock]

Listening into the stern cams on LR, FB is calling most of the tactics - with input from Jimmy and the trimmer. I think FB is the Numero Uno on the boat. Jimmy's input seems more suggestive, than commanding - not always, but that's the impression I get. 

 

[IPLore]

Listening into the stern cams on LR, FB is calling most of the tactics - with input from Jimmy and the trimmer. I think FB is the Numero Uno on the boat. Jimmy's input seems more suggestive, than commanding - not always, but that's the impression I get. 

So possibly one reason for the combo is that FB likes the time to look around. They tried it and discovered it works very well. ? 

One of them has to make the final call on tactics. Is it always FB or does it depend who is on the helm?