M32 Gold Cup

Shife

Super Anarchist
7,657
11
No. It means someone has complained and potentially offered some new information. There was one case last year where a lawyer had his research assistant digging into Cat 1's histories to try and get them reclassified.
How is that the fault of ISAF? So what if they have a case file on him and have interviewed him twice already. They are obliged to look into it, even if it is petty bullshit.

It's pretty hard for most people to understand how Bora can spend 365 days/year doing nothing but sailing at his age without one of the 50 programs he races for paying his way. It is most certainly not normal and people who don't know him well are going to question it. He's a very unique individual and probably a bit of a mystery to the average guy reading a copy of Sailing World.

Think about it: The guy is on the cover of, or featured in, just about every sailing publication on the planet, hangs out with a well known pro 99% of the time, and doesn't appear to have a traditional job of any sort. It's hard to find a top level event in the US that he isn't at. It makes him an easy target.

 

port tack

Member
429
12
Gulf Coast
It's pretty hard for most people to understand how Bora can spend 365 days/year doing nothing but sailing at his age without one of the 50 programs he races for paying his way. It is most certainly not normal and people who don't know him well are going to question it. He's a very unique individual and probably a bit of a mystery to the average guy reading a copy of Sailing World.
Think about it: The guy is on the cover of, or featured in, just about every sailing publication on the planet, hangs out with a well known pro 99% of the time, and doesn't appear to have a traditional job of any sort. It's hard to find a top level event in the US that he isn't at. It makes him an easy target.
Don't care if he is a Cat 1,2,3 or 12 I hate the guy on the general principle that he has the ablity to sail 365 days a year without getting paid. Therefore he doesn't have to take shit from an owner. Can walk whenever he wants. How fucken lucky can a guy get? :lol:

 

FINS

Super Anarchist
It's pretty hard for most people to understand how Bora can spend 365 days/year doing nothing but sailing at his age without one of the 50 programs he races for paying his way. It is most certainly not normal and people who don't know him well are going to question it. He's a very unique individual and probably a bit of a mystery to the average guy reading a copy of Sailing World.
Think about it: The guy is on the cover of, or featured in, just about every sailing publication on the planet, hangs out with a well known pro 99% of the time, and doesn't appear to have a traditional job of any sort. It's hard to find a top level event in the US that he isn't at. It makes him an easy target.
Don't care if he is a Cat 1,2,3 or 12 I hate the guy on the general principle that he has the ablity to sail 365 days a year without getting paid. Therefore he doesn't have to take shit from an owner. Can walk whenever he wants. How fucken lucky can a guy get? :lol:
And he dates some hot chicks... :D B) :D

 

glexpress

Super Anarchist
3,056
114
Hill Valley
It's hard to find a top level event in the US that he isn't at. It makes him an easy target.

Yeah, I reckon he's going to be the subject of witch hunts for a while. I'm sure by now he's got a template for dealing with these situations and the more and more ISAF goes after him and the more he proves them wrong and the more ISAF looks the fool. But I guess that nothing new to anyone.

 

Sneaky Duck

Anarchist
595
26
Rochester, NY
How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.
Then name names and say why they are 3s if it pisses you off so much.
Clean: now that is pretty funny. They are named. At least I know of three on the list posted in this thread (and two that are not). I have suggested to you before, take a investigative journalist approach, dig and you will get dirt. I will give you a hint: of those named who routinely sails with the man who coined the "best amateurs money can buy" or query Ed F about a certain boat mover, why don't you ask why a certain recipient of a country wide award could not travel back to that country to accept the award (now that would make for some interesting dirt)? How about another of the named that claims he lives at home and is a poor Cat 1 sailor but is seen repeatedly in boatyards up and down the East Coast working on a new (and former) TP 52 with posts on Facebook no less for a New Orleans owner. I agree with some of your grips that the rule is faulty, but that by no way excuses those that are cheating. As a journilist, if anyone is to do some "outing" one would expect it is you.

Regards,

Crew
Here's the list of those to be interviewed:

Bora Gulari

Jon Goldsberry

Marty Kullman

Johnny Lovell

Curtis Florence

Matt Noble

Alex Clegg

Philip Werheim

Chris Rast
That list should be several names longer.
Could we get Alex Jackson in there too since he's going to be there? Would be nice to see what's going on with his big boat and why she's not doing Sydney Hobart this year since everyone else is.

 

MR.CLEAN

Moderator
45,939
4,195
Not here
Could we get Alex Jackson in there too since he's going to be there? Would be nice to see what's going on with his big boat and why she's not doing Sydney Hobart this year since everyone else is.
We'll try. Alex was very clear that he is an intensely private person when we asked last year. I don't think we even met him. But that list wasn't OUR interviews, it was ISAF's.

Let us know who else you'd like us to catch. We'll surely get Bora, and Bear, and Ullman, and Jonny G, and Matt N, and Johnny Lovell, and Ben Bardwell, and Molly and John Baxter, and Gavin Brady, and so on, and so on...

Post your questions here too.

 

MR.CLEAN

Moderator
45,939
4,195
Not here
Star Struck

 

With the end of a torn-down Medcup, no more LV racing for a while, and the dissolution of most of the AC teams, the amount of top-level talent available for events has mushroomed. And the chief beneficiary of that talent is the class that is charging ahead despite the economic slump: The Melges 32.

 

Twenty-three boats (3 up from '08) will be on the line in Fort Lauderdale, and the "tale of the tape" is as much about the pro, amateur, and "under review" crews as it is about the owners' ability to wrestle these powered-up weapons around the lumpy track off of Florida's Southeast coast. Here's our breakdown of the 2009 Gold Cup:

 

THE VETERANS

 

It's hard to look past Jeff Ecklund's Star for this one. Despite a poor showing in 2008 (5th), Jeff still is one of the best sportboat drivers around in big air, which this event should have plenty of. In a class of owner/drivers, Ecklund's at a very high level - his years at the tiller of a Melges 24 and numerous other top classes give him a leg up. Add to that some self-motivated pressure of that off-podium finish in 2008 at this, his home regatta, and his disappointment at not being able to sail the Sardinia Worlds, and you've got the recipe for someone with something to prove. With Harry Melges III on tactics, Scott Norris on trim, and Bora Gulari as the new kid aboard, Jeff is definitely a top 3 finisher. Working against him is the fact that he is Class President and really the founder of this event - but if he can stay focused, look for some pickle dishes for Star.

 

New Wave comes into the regatta as the defending champion, but with literally zero time in the boat in almost a year. Rustiness isn't much of an issue though - Alex Shaffer and Steve Liebel were both at Worlds, and this crew has sailed together for a decade, consistently showing the ability to step in anytime and go fast whether Marty or Mike are driving. A bigger issue is the rapid progression in tune and technique that many teams have made in the interim - and we're not sure New Wave has kept up. They've also lost ace tactician Scott Nixon this year, replacing him with Doug Fisher, no slouch but much quieter than Nixon. With no Bliksem here, this is the most Anarchist of the fleet, and a likely podium finisher.

 

Samba Pa Ti is amazingly also a veteran in this young fleet after just a year's racing. It's hard to believe it's been an ISAF class for less than a year, and a class at all only since 2007. But Kilroy walked in last year with T. Hutch on tactics and left with a third place, and this year he brings Scow legend Sam Rogers and Ericcson VOR vet Stu Bannatyne into the fray, along with great amateurs like Shana Phelan and Justin Smart. Will Sam be able to control Kilroy's temper the way Terry could? That may be the difference between top 5 and bottom 10.

 

Ninkasi is also an old program now, finishing 6th last year with Anthony Kotoun on tactics, same as this year. But they've added Andrew Campbell to the mix for 2009, and Campbell is at the top of his game right now. King's Point and Morning Light alum Jessie Fielding is aboard as well - lots of brains and talent aboard Ninkasi, the best name in the fleet; Ninkasi is the goddess of beer and owner Taylor is a Heineken distributor and supplies apres-race refreshments to the fleet. Nice.

 

The Barbarians are back as well, with a lot to prove after a miserable showing in Porto Cervo. And this time, they've got a good luck charm: OTW Anarchy staffer Andromache Mason is going to see if she can help our British pals keep their eye on the prize.

 

 

THE STACKED

 

There are a few teams that may not have a great winning history, but are completely loaded up with the best there is - ISAF interview dependant, that is.

 

Leenabarca is probably the most heavily loaded, with Speedboat owner Alex Jackson having proved he still knows how to drive last year with a 12th in his first-ever M32 race at this event last year. Jackson is a former collegiate star, and SA's own 'poop' - newly crowned J22 NA Champ Flipper Werheim - will talk him around the track. Jackson also has Northeast legend Steve Benjamin, Coach of the Year Mark Ivey, SF star Bill Erkelens, Canadian sailor of the year Curtis Florence, M32 World Champ crew Alex Clegg, and I-14 World Champ Matt Noble to make things happen quickly and right. If there aren't too many cooks in the kitchen, look for a top 5 from these guys.

 

Kip Meadows is one of our favorite owners here; the affable southerner is a blast to hang around with, though he's rarely seen the podium despite being in the class since almost the beginning. This time, his Roxanne is playing for keeps, with Andy Horton on tactics and kiwi VOR and AC vet Sean Clarkson, North Sails guru Dave Scott, and 18-foot skiffer Jonny Goldsberry making the rest happen.

 

Red owner Joe Woods is a hell of a driver, notching one or two bullets in the tough Porto Cervo worlds, but he's stepped it up too. Laser Gold Medalist Paul "Goody" Goodison is his tactician, and there are few smarter sailors on the planet. Dave Lenz and Shane Hughes round out the Cat 3 complement, and Joe's sailing 9 up again, though without the cute chicks we watched in Italy.

 

And the sole Italian entry - Lanfranco "Momo" Cirillo's Fantasticaa has her usual crew of DeDe Deluca, Mechele Paoletti, and Team Azzurra LC champ Stefano Rizzi aboard. Momo has about 9 race boats and a serious group of coaches making his accelerated program of becoming a racer happen - he never sailed before a few years ago. That didn't stop him from a lot of top ten finishes in Sardinia though - can he do the same here?

 

And finally, Argo can't be considered to be a stacked program, but their largely amateur effort got them a great result at worlds, with John Baxter proving he could hold his own against almost any tactician in the world, and Jason Carroll pulling off some sweet starting and smooth overtaking in almost every condition. Plus they've got the cutest and possibly most talented sailor chick in the fleet - and that counts for something. We think strategist Molly Baxter will put Argo on the podium...

 

THE NEWBIES

 

The sign of a healthy class is the new blood, and there's a lot of it here - and some of them might even win. Andy Lovell's Rougarou just won the Nationals in SF with brother and Tornado Olympian Johnny on tactics - not a huge accomplishment considering only four or five other competitors total, but definitely an announcement that the boys can roll in the breeze.

 

Amway Corporation icons and Michigan political family the Devos's have two boats here, with four family members aboard. Both boats have undergone extensive training up in Holland, MI, and the two-boat program is a full Quantum effort. Delta and Volpe will split Brian Janney, Skip Baxter, Scott Nixon, Mark Pinney, and Chris Rast between them. Consistency will be difficult, but speed is assured.

 

Two Swan 42 owners have bought into the class as well - no doubt due to the complete lack of any OD winter racing for the heavy NYYC lemons. They are Phil Lotz' Arethusa (with M24 World Champ Richard Clarke on tactics) and Malcolm Geftner's Celeritas. Both owner/drivers are going to have an awfully steep learning curve, but sneaky Celeritas has at least one secret weapon: M32 World Champ tactician Jeremy "Troll" Wilmot is aboard, though not listed as tactician...yet.

 

And finally, our pick for the highest-placed rookie in the fleet goes to Bob Hughes' Heartbreaker. Hughes' limited time in the boat is balanced out by his undoubted skill as a fleet racer, winning at the helm of his Farr 40, 1D35, and Melges 24 at events like Key West, SORC, and the Canada's Cup. When the breeze is on, Bob can roll with the best of them - he is ultra-fit and his reflexes are those of someone half his age. And he's got some talent with him: Port Huron bowman extraordinaire and Viper 640 owner (and NA Champ) Lee Shuckerow, M24 and Olympic 470 stud Steve Hunt (tactics), trimmer and speed guru Wally Cross, and M32 World Champ (and rig tune genius) George Peet. Heartbreaker shoud finish the event in the top 5, with a real chance of winning a race or two.

 

PODIUM PICKS

 

We'll go out on a limb and pick our top 5. They are: (5) Heartbreaker, (4) Rougarou, (3) New Wave, (2) Star, and (1) Red.

 

SAILS CALL

 

We're a bit unsure about the sail situation in the fleet right now. Despite having almost no presence in Europe, there are a LOT of Quantum teams here in the states, and remember that last year's champ wore a full suit of the angry green donut. Fantasticaa was rumored to be bringing over a new set of ONE sails for their upwind work, but we're not sure if they've been ironed out yet. And Ullman was rumored to be working on a set of Ullmans as well. Regardless of what actually shows, some diversity is essential to the health of the fleet, and we think we'll see the most sailmaker-diverse event yet for the Melges 32 class.

 

GET WITH THE PROGRAM

 

We'll have it all for you right here on SA: Live written commentary, starts, mark roundings, and finishes on video with just a few minutes' delay, near real-time photography from Mer, and dozens of interviews with the best in the world as well as the most interesting at the event, and daily reports - all in the Gold Cup OTWA forum. If you want to win Kaenon sunglasses, Ultimate Sailing calendars and gear, and get discounts on great gear from all our sponsors, you'll have to stay awhile.

 

We're also stoked to (finally) have live tracking of every minute of the racing on the SA Media page, courtesy of Kattack Live's brand new tracking solution.

 

And finally, we'll have our live talk show - the OTWA "Cocktail Hour" on Friday and Saturday afternoon. One day will be the top tacticians, and one day will be...well, we don't know yet! Tune in for more, or let us know what you want to see in the pre-event thread.

 

Our event is presented by OTWA apparel provider Point Loma Outfitting, who will be unveiling a new Atlantis On-The-Water Anarchy jacket for sale during our coverage. Ultimate Sailing is also on board for Gold Cup, and Latis Yachting Solutions, Charleston Race Week, and yacht broker MII Yacht Sales is new to the party as well, though MII honcho Ron McTighe was our awesome OTW driver last year during this event. He'll be back this year to get us right on top of the action...and under it. Yes, we'll be under the water once again, this time with a new camera, a new housing, and a new twist...

 

 

 

 

12/3/2009

 

ILYA_Fan

Member
231
0
Midwest
Outstanding write-up Clean. I agree with Sailor90 ^ and would go further to say that this represents your best work. THIS is one of the big reasons why I'm forever hooked on SA's OTWA, and I'll be looking to buy stuff from your advertisers to support your excellent reporting. I'm really looking forward to color commentary from Andy Burdick and the Melges European prez. I can't wait for the fun to begin! I'm a wannabe with no real connections to this fleet, but I live vicariously through your reporting and already know that I'll be able to imagine myself there.

This part made me chuckle... actually almost fell off my chair!

... and this year he brings Scow legend Sam Rogers and Ericcson VOR vet Stu Bannatyne into the fray, along with great amateurs like Shana Phelan and Justin Smart. Will Sam be able to control Kilroy's temper the way Terry could?
HAHAHA! If Kilroy has a temper, it should be highly entertaining to see him paired up with ol' Sammy. The guy is so famous for his nasty temper, he even has a new nickname. Did you hear about him getting body slammed in the bar this summer at Green Lake? :lol:

GO RASHID!

I have good money to contribute to a fund for putting a microphone on ol' Rashid for the event. DAMN I would love to hear the banter on that boat, especially when the chips are down. "You fuckers all SUCK! bla bla bla..." MWAHAHAHA! :lol:

 
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ILYA_Fan

Member
231
0
Midwest
Clean: now that is pretty funny. They are named. At least I know of three on the list posted in this thread (and two that are not). I have suggested to you before, take a investigative journalist approach, dig and you will get dirt. I will give you a hint: of those named who routinely sails with the man who coined the "best amateurs money can buy" or query Ed F about a certain boat mover, why don't you ask why a certain recipient of a country wide award could not travel back to that country to accept the award (now that would make for some interesting dirt)? How about another of the named that claims he lives at home and is a poor Cat 1 sailor but is seen repeatedly in boatyards up and down the East Coast working on a new (and former) TP 52 with posts on Facebook no less for a New Orleans owner. I agree with some of your grips that the rule is faulty, but that by no way excuses those that are cheating. As a journilist, if anyone is to do some "outing" one would expect it is you.Regards,

Crew
What are the chances that this stupid ISAF rule can be chucked? The M32's have a chance to be the ultimate freak show, where all of the top boats are stacked with the best talent money can buy.

I find it more entertaining to watch a battle between the very best out there, and I think the M32 class would be better served without this stupid rule. Just my 2cents, I could be wrong.... but wouldn't it be better if the boats who can afford pros added all the talent they can? Boats without huge budgets should still be able to compete, maybe not for podium but with a fleet this deep, a top 10 finish should be attainable and would be a great honor IMHO.

Do the Farr 40's have this stupid rule?

 

JoeO

Super Anarchist
1,336
147
Chicago
Do the Farr 40's have this stupid rule?
Yes.

In both cases (M32, F40) the class (i.e., owners) have decided to (try) to limit pro participation (I say 'try" because we all know how well the classification system is working - e.g. "gardeners"). But if the owners wanted a "freak show", they would not have included ANY restrictions in the class rules. That is not the case. The restrictions are not imposed by ISAF. The ISAF classification system (flawed as it is) simply provides the means to enforce the restrictions.

 

ILYA_Fan

Member
231
0
Midwest
Do the Farr 40's have this stupid rule?
Yes.

In both cases (M32, F40) the class (i.e., owners) have decided to (try) to limit pro participation (I say 'try" because we all know how well the classification system is working - e.g. "gardeners"). But if the owners wanted a "freak show", they would not have included ANY restrictions in the class rules. That is not the case. The restrictions are not imposed by ISAF. The ISAF classification system (flawed as it is) simply provides the means to enforce the restrictions.
Thanks, I'm learning. I guess the owners' point of view makes sense... OTOH I'm just an armchair sailor for 9 months of the year, and yes, I do want a freak show. Regardless of the ISAF classification system, this regatta should fit the bill quite nicely!

I appreciate your response.

 

SailDry

Super Anarchist
1,869
0
Detroit
Much to do about nothing. All interviewed cleared for racing in their respective ISAF categories. Until the next regatta.

 

SimonS

Member
Really well-written, thoughtful, analysis, Clean. Excellent. And I absolutely agree with your focus as expressed in your Front Page "Lessons Learned" on December 1. Please keep the posts coming fast and furious with positions at marks, who is going which way up the beats, which side is paying, what the breeze is doing etc. That makes the action seem close to home.

I suspect your picks will be way off the mark, but no more so than anyone else could come up with. I'll be watching the coverage with great interest...

 
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