Magic Trick

duncan (the other one)

Super Anarchist
5,443
469
Siderney
Not sure what rule they're racing under, but under most, they are either:

a) Cheating: using a tack point forward of the measured SPL

or

B) Stupid: using a pole shorter than rated SPL.

 

duncan (the other one)

Super Anarchist
5,443
469
Siderney
(some more research...)

Hoag cup uses ORR rules, so the answer may be c) something else.

"SPL (longer of spinnaker or whisker poles): ___

If Spinnaker is asymmetrical and is tacked to sprit or on centerline (not to

spinnaker pole), what is the horizontal distance from forward most tack position to forward side of mast: ___"

Does ORR treat sprits differently from poles?.. if so, then maybe they've got equivalent-rating tack points (short pole, long centerline).

 

Pete M

Super Anarchist
8,778
3
So Cal
as garrett says -after a jibe and transfer not complete to the brace, and possibly pole not yet on mast (jhc)

 

fan

Super Anarchist
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San Diego
The only acceptable explination is the pole is not attached to the mast yet. Anything else and they are CHEATING.

 

Omer

Anarchist
902
30
I guess they are flying the spinnaker without using the pole. The guy doesnt seem to go through the pole end.

 
Not sure what rule they're racing under, but under most, they are either:a) Cheating: using a tack point forward of the measured SPL

or

B) Stupid: using a pole shorter than rated SPL.

They dont look in any rush to me to re set the pole and the kite looks too well set to be mid gybe.

Maybe they have had their boat measured to take account of that. On our king 40 we have a stubby bowsprit to help get the kite away from the forestay through gybes and we are measured for that. given the forestay being so far back in the boat they dont need a stubby but can pull the same trick....

Is that old ONO TP52 in the background now called Barking Mad???

 

Sol Rosenberg

Girthy Member
94,354
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Earth
The only acceptable explination is the pole is not attached to the mast yet. Anything else and they are CHEATING.
I would think so as well.

Is that the old O'No 52 in the background, now named Stark Raving Mad, or perhaps Barking Mad?

 

Somebody Else

a person of little consequence
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PNW
The only acceptable explination is the pole is not attached to the mast yet. Anything else and they are CHEATING.
Glad to see you're not too full of shit...

What are you going for? Dr. Laura II?

If you're trying to set yourself as some sort of omniscient god, at least learn how to spell...

Christ people! They just did the last jibe at the finish and haven't yet snugged up the afterguy yet.

I wasn't there on Saturday when the front page picture was alleged to be taken, but I don't see this program:

  1. being unaware that sailing like that is illegal;
  2. trying to sneak one past a fleet of aware sailors.
I took maybe two dozen pictures of Pyewacket with spinnaker up and none of them show the "cheater" position.

As an aside, all weekend, the SC70s with standard length poles looked oddly undercanvassed.

Here are three pictures from three different races (Race 1, race 2, and race 5)

044_pyewacket.jpg

124_pyewacket.jpg

116_pyewacket_final_leg.jpg

 

notallthere

Super Anarchist
2,980
45
im on a boat!
The only acceptable explination is the pole is not attached to the mast yet. Anything else and they are CHEATING.
Glad to see you're not too full of shit...

What are you going for? Dr. Laura II?

If you're trying to set yourself as some sort of omniscient god, at least learn how to spell...

Christ people! They just did the last jibe at the finish and haven't yet snugged up the afterguy yet.

I wasn't there on Saturday when the front page picture was alleged to be taken, but I don't see this program:

  1. being unaware that sailing like that is illegal;
  2. trying to sneak one past a fleet of aware sailors.
I took maybe two dozen pictures of Pyewacket with spinnaker up and none of them show the "cheater" position.

As an aside, all weekend, the SC70s with standard length poles looked oddly undercanvassed.

Here are three pictures from three different races (Race 1, race 2, and race 5)

View attachment 109901

View attachment 109902

View attachment 109903
your first 2 pics confirm the fact that unless they are rated for a n over j length pole they were cheating

 

Somebody Else

a person of little consequence
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PNW
your first 2 pics confirm the fact that unless they are rated for a n over j length pole they were cheating
I'm pretty stupid so you will have to explain that better for me.

I see a correctly flown spinnaker.

I just assumed, probably incorrectly, that the boat was rated at one time with "penalty" poles and didn't bother to relocate the foreguy deck block when they went back to standard J-length poles.

Or it has multiple rating certificates with and without "penalty" poles.

 
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doghouse

Super Anarchist
The only acceptable explination is the pole is not attached to the mast yet. Anything else and they are CHEATING.
Glad to see you're not too full of shit...

What are you going for? Dr. Laura II?

If you're trying to set yourself as some sort of omniscient god, at least learn how to spell...

Christ people! They just did the last jibe at the finish and haven't yet snugged up the afterguy yet.

I wasn't there on Saturday when the front page picture was alleged to be taken, but I don't see this program:

  1. being unaware that sailing like that is illegal;
  2. trying to sneak one past a fleet of aware sailors.
I took maybe two dozen pictures of Pyewacket with spinnaker up and none of them show the "cheater" position.

As an aside, all weekend, the SC70s with standard length poles looked oddly undercanvassed.

Here are three pictures from three different races (Race 1, race 2, and race 5)

View attachment 109901

View attachment 109902

View attachment 109903
your first 2 pics confirm the fact that unless they are rated for a n over j length pole they were cheating
you are high

 

atwinda

Anarchist
785
231
The word is that they used this on Saturday, but on Sunday a few guys from other boats had a little talk with them and they raced with the kite on the pole for Sunday’s race - and guess what? Worst result of the regatta, 5th.
They had a poor start on sunday, and there was more breeze than the previous days. The 52's just jumped out in front.

While I did her some rumors of foul play, they were absolutely nothing to do with the way the boat was setup for hoag. And my best guess is that this little front page item is a warning shot by someone to make good on their word of exposing other things.

 

PerryWinkle

Banned
504
0
I cut the line at the spinning teacups ride, and jumped

the fence at flying dumbos ride. So been a while,

but thats cheating too.. I cant blame them

 

Sol Rosenberg

Girthy Member
94,354
11,858
Earth
The only acceptable explination is the pole is not attached to the mast yet. Anything else and they are CHEATING.
Glad to see you're not too full of shit...

What are you going for? Dr. Laura II?

If you're trying to set yourself as some sort of omniscient god, at least learn how to spell...

Christ people! They just did the last jibe at the finish and haven't yet snugged up the afterguy yet.

I wasn't there on Saturday when the front page picture was alleged to be taken, but I don't see this program:

  1. being unaware that sailing like that is illegal;
  2. trying to sneak one past a fleet of aware sailors.
I took maybe two dozen pictures of Pyewacket with spinnaker up and none of them show the "cheater" position.

As an aside, all weekend, the SC70s with standard length poles looked oddly undercanvassed.

Here are three pictures from three different races (Race 1, race 2, and race 5)

View attachment 109901

View attachment 109902

View attachment 109903
Why would that be full of shit. It is an acceptable explanation, and would appear to be the case, given the guys working on the foredeck, and your shots showing the boat with a penalty pole. This is a non-issue, at least until someone wants to break out the tape measure.

 

Somebody Else

a person of little consequence
7,641
805
PNW
Why would that be full of shit. It is an acceptable explanation, and would appear to be the case, given the guys working on the foredeck, and your shots showing the boat with a penalty pole.
In all the photographs I posted, the pole is on the mast and the forward/outboard tip is in the same location as the "damning" photograph.

In no photographs of the entire regatta is Pyewacket shown with a "penalty" pole.

The pole in measurement position appears to be within a millimeter of the J, which is what I would expect from any serious program.

 
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