Mainsail boompack for single handed racing

[964racer]

I considered all options which included the stack pack as you describe and I ended up with a tides mast track, retractable dyneema lazy jack system and traditional sail cover.  (With no cutouts for the jacks; you have to retract them before putting the sail cover back on)..   This systems works well for me.  The jacks are 1/4” dyneema; My main is 300 sq ft.  ( E33RH).  I can drop the main pretty quickly and I end up tidying up the flaking when I am back up the dock.   You then retract the lazy jacks and put on the sail cover.   It’s a pretty uncomplicated system.  If you have a stack pack, you still have to zip or strap it closed at the end of the day.  You also have to worry about water/moisture getting trapped in it.  Cosmetically, I think it looks cleaner without the stack pack on… My 2 cents.

 

[964racer]

View attachment 440268

What happens when it rains ?  where does the water drain ?

 

[shaggybaxter]

What happens when it rains ?  where does the water drain ?

Hiya 964,

The bottom of the bag is open and isn't attached to the boom along the whole length, you can reach your hand up and pull through reef lines for example. The first pic shows the air gaps along the length. 

You get more water in the folds of the sail from lazy flaking.

Cheers.

SB

 

[Quickstep192]

Yep, that was how mine was set up, only three lazyjacks per side though  :blink: . They act the topping lift as well. Each side is a single line so if you need to  drop the lazyjacks it's only one knot to undo. A batten at the top each side helped keep it neat when the sail is up.

View attachment 440263

You could slide it down the black webbing straps and lash it neat and tidy against the boom if you want nice clean lines, we'd do that only for longer races. Otherwise it would sit like this. You can see the front of the bag hanging down behind the boom, you used to have to tuck the front flaps inside the bag like the windward one is.  

View attachment 440268

ShaggyBaxter, Your StackPack cover looks nice. Who makes it? 

 

[shaggybaxter]

ShaggyBaxter, Your StackPack cover looks nice. Who makes it? 

HI Quickstep,

Its from Incidence, the loft that did my sail wardrobe. Really lovely guys, super enthusiastic and keen racers, I think 4 or 5 of the Vendee Globe skippers were using Incidence last trip round. If you're looking to get pricing, just tell them you're looking for a Pogo 12.50 style boom bag. They work pretty closely together so they'll know what you mean. 

The bag was toast at the end of 5 years, but that's not surprising, UV around here is a killer. 

Cheers!

SB

 

[DELETED]

I’m slowly recovering from shock after agreeing on a price from a sailmaker for a stackpack/boom bag and boat shade covers.. Stackpack/bag supplied(not rigged or fitted)..$1600aus.!!! Thats expensive Sunbrella!

Sailmaker now claiming zip on shade covers for each side will cost extra and weren't part of the original quote... Unfortunately i paid the quote in full on the day of original arrangement and the Companies quote wording is ambiguous 
On description... The Massive company logos must be expensive?.

Check and double check your sizes and quoted instructions are right for you, nobody else. 

The rigger did a great job of making up the jacklines. I have a cleat either side of mast but the lazyjack lines i have are long enough to run back to cockpit(which i may do incase of batten snag on reefing or raising main singlehanded). 
Good luck. 

 

[IStream]

I just re-stitched the 15 year old bag on my boat. The boom is over 14' (4.5m) long and with the battcars at the mast, it has to be pretty tall to cover all the works. There's a lot of fabric, a lot of reinforcement, a long zipper & battens, the whole boltrope & tie setup, and a lot of stitching. I wouldn't be shocked if the replacement quote came in over US$2K.

 

[pulpit]

I’m slowly recovering from shock after agreeing on a price from a sailmaker for a stackpack/boom bag and boat shade covers.. Stackpack/bag supplied(not rigged or fitted)..$1600aus.!!! Thats expensive Sunbrella!

Sailmaker now claiming zip on shade covers for each side will cost extra and weren't part of the original quote... Unfortunately i paid the quote in full on the day of original arrangement and the Companies quote wording is ambiguous 
On description... The Massive company logos must be expensive?.

Check and double check your sizes and quoted instructions are right for you, nobody else. 

The rigger did a great job of making up the jacklines. I have a cleat either side of mast but the lazyjack lines i have are long enough to run back to cockpit(which i may do incase of batten snag on reefing or raising main singlehanded). 
Good luck. 

FixinGit

If you are unhappy with the sailmaker and feel you have been ripped off with the added on costs  of the zips from the quote, Then ask them to remove their sailmakers logo from your boom bag and covers or remove it yourself.

After all why give them free advertising and if they have a problem with removing the logo's from your boom bag and covers then tell them straight that your unhappy with the added on costs from the quote for the zips and that you aren't willing to advertise for them and that you won't be recommending them to others. 

After all, it takes 100 jobs to get a good name and only 1 or 2 bad jobs to get people talking  to get a bad name. 

So why is the sail maker ?

Pulpit 

 

[Jud - s/v Sputnik]

I’m slowly recovering from shock after agreeing on a price from a sailmaker for a stackpack/boom bag and boat shade covers.. Stackpack/bag supplied(not rigged or fitted)..$1600aus.!!! Thats expensive Sunbrella!

Sailmaker now claiming zip on shade covers for each side will cost extra and weren't part of the original quote... Unfortunately i paid the quote in full on the day of original arrangement and the Companies quote wording is ambiguous 
On description... The Massive company logos must be expensive?.

Check and double check your sizes and quoted instructions are right for you, nobody else. 

The rigger did a great job of making up the jacklines. I have a cleat either side of mast but the lazyjack lines i have are long enough to run back to cockpit(which i may do incase of batten snag on reefing or raising main singlehanded). 
Good luck. 

Local quote for me is C$100 per foot of boom (believer that includes jacks, but I’m not sure).  I’m told it takes about 30 hours to see a good quality/well designed sail pack, very labour intensive.  My wife, who is a very experienced sewer winched a bit at the cost, but fairly well understands the labour involved in a large custom sewing project.

(Just try sewing one yourself...can definitely be done, I.e., a Sailrite one with mods, but you may not be 100% happy with the results.)

 

[JL92S]

I’m slowly recovering from shock after agreeing on a price from a sailmaker for a stackpack/boom bag and boat shade covers.. Stackpack/bag supplied(not rigged or fitted)..$1600aus.!!! Thats expensive Sunbrella!

Sailmaker now claiming zip on shade covers for each side will cost extra and weren't part of the original quote... Unfortunately i paid the quote in full on the day of original arrangement and the Companies quote wording is ambiguous 
On description... The Massive company logos must be expensive?.

Check and double check your sizes and quoted instructions are right for you, nobody else. 

The rigger did a great job of making up the jacklines. I have a cleat either side of mast but the lazyjack lines i have are long enough to run back to cockpit(which i may do incase of batten snag on reefing or raising main singlehanded). 
Good luck. 

What is your boom length? Also any chance the “zip on sunshades” part of your quote was just for the zips to be added to your stackpack ready for sunshades to be added later?

 

[Renegade-27]

$2164 USD for a Stakpak system (and cover) from Doyle for an X-34 (long boom).  I think I paid about $1500 for one for a different boat (35', but shorter boom) about 3 years ago from the same sailmaker.  Prices are up in the US!

 

[DELETED]

What is your boom length? Also any chance the “zip on sunshades” part of your quote was just for the zips to be added to your stackpack ready for sunshades to be added later?

They didnt even install zips for shade. We had an indepth discussion at the time in person at the sail loft. The sail loft manager confirmed my ideas and dictated them to the lovely admin lady(his mother/inlaw?) they printed off the quote i paid it in full(it was actually more than $1600) He told me how he would need to have me flake the mainsail over boom etc for his sizes then once bag was made it would need to be fitted so he could measure for zip on shade wings etc. That was all arranged. It took 3months to get to the stage of bag made,fitted to boom ready for him to revisit for final measuring wings etc, at which point i discovered they wanted to quote on the wings.. 
i live in a very high UV area so i KNOW how much sunbrella is and roughly what a job like that entails. Unfortunately my boat is 2000kms south of me. 

FixinGit

If you are unhappy with the sailmaker and feel you have been ripped off with the added on costs  of the zips from the quote, Then ask them to remove their sailmakers logo from your boom bag and covers or remove it yourself.

After all why give them free advertising and if they have a problem with removing the logo's from your boom bag and covers then tell them straight that your unhappy with the added on costs from the quote for the zips and that you aren't willing to advertise for them and that you won't be recommending them to others. 

After all, it takes 100 jobs to get a good name and only 1 or 2 bad jobs to get people talking  to get a bad name. 

So why is the sail maker ?

Pulpit 

I wont name the sailmaker as they have been in business longer than i have been in boats. My situation could be down to a number of factors ranging from Bullshit to genuine miscommunication or care factor zero etc. Either way iam left out of pocket but with a quality minimalist boom bag and a sour taste in my mouth. I have voiced my distaste with them and reassured them i’ll never deal with them again. And yes, every logo on Sails and the bag WILL be removed or covered with something more inkeeping as soon as i can get to the boat..(Covid restrictions). 

 

[slug zitski]

I made this instead of a stack pack after seeing the imocas.  I set the lazyjacks so that they are just loose enough when I'm fully sheeted on for upwind that they just lay against the sail.  Seems to work pretty well but my boat is much smaller.  First picture is with a reef in.

View attachment 440243

View attachment 440244

Looks good 

simple 

 

[t.rex]

I’m curious to get opinions on the merits of a sail pack / stack pack whatever you like to call them for mainsail handling. Largish mainsail, getting it flaked boom is a major piece of work and a challenge when short/single handed, so I’m wondering if having a bag on the main would make the whole thing easier, and also provide a place for furled main to stow.  The downside is the windage of that bag once sailing, so thinking of a design that could easily be snugged against the boom out of the way, with lazy jacks led forward and stowed on the mast.

Thoughts or experiences?

What you are talking about is called a lazy bag in use with lazy jacks.

Jud - s/v Sputnik has a good thread in cruising anarchy about these. Otherwise search for 'stack pack' in the header.

https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/221643-stack-pack-and-lazy-jacks-for-main-anyone-have-tips-for-making/

To reduce the windage it's relatively easy to install or retrofit a lazy bag with 3-4 clic-clacs (those plastic clips you see everywhere on a backpack) on each side.

The trick is to sew the female clic-clac on a short webbing loop to the polyester tape holding the bolt-rope on the outside, and the male part on a short length of webbing (70 cm forward to 30 cm aft)  to the polyester tape on the inside of the lazy bag.

With the sail set, lower the lazy jack inside the lazy bag and pull forward to the mast. Roll up the lazy bag around its batten and fix with the clic-clacs. Tighten as necessary.

Hi Jud,

As far as pricing goes; up to early summer, we had this quote policy for lazy bags.

- measure from the back of the mast to the end of the boom.

- 100 euro per meter.

- Lazy jacks are not included and we try not to get involved with installing them. Plenty of riggers around going up wobbly masts.

- If the client asked or we knew that the client raced, then we'll throw in the clic-clacs (nobody ever uses them).

- Sun shades are not included and neither are 'predisposed' zippers.

Halfway through spring, our main production period, the manager of the loft sits me down and says "For what I pay for acrilan and what I pay you to make these, I am losing money on the rent, lights ..."

- 150 euro per meter.

 

[The Q]

This has been a very interesting thread, as has the previous thread mentioned above.

My little boat is a single hander sitting facing forwards on the Centreline, so arranging the sail drop is an interesting problem, after looking at all the solutions shown by various helpful people. The one I've chosen is from the other thread .. This one, 

The only difference I'll make is the lower ends of the lazyjacks will be taken forward , down the mast then back to the helm position. So I can draw in the lazy jack's to the mast and boom out of the way for sailing.

 

[Airwick]

I might be a bit late to the party but I've recently setup a lazy jack system on my F-24 that's a bit different from what I've seen and I'm quite happy with the way it turned out so I thought I would share in case it's useful to anyone!

I wanted it to be simple to setup and put away as I trailer sail the boat and sail solo most of the time these days. I also didn't have a topping lift before (to save one thing to deal with when trailering) so it had to support the boom (especially important while reefing). It's a loose footed square top main with full battens and uses slugs in the mast track.

I set it up as shown on the diagram (shown in both "deployed" and put away for sailing). I do have to reach the end of the boom to adjust but I don't have to go forward as the bungy cords at the front pulls it forward and keeps things from flopping around and I have found I only need to ease a little bit to keep it from interfering with the sail (going to the spreader tips helps with that).

I just have three soft shackles to disconnect for trailering and then I just clip the ends of the "U" parts together in my cuningham snap shackle to stop them from getting tangled (has worked well so far) while the fixed parts on the mast are kept parallel to the diamond wires by the bungy so take care of themselves.
The trickiest part is sliding the sail cover down between the the lazy jacks and the sail but with a bit of practice it's not bad. Because I don't need to roll up the sail anymore (I just flake it on the boom and take the slugs out before putting the cover on), it's slightly quicker to setup and put away overall than how I had it before, it holds the sail nicely on the boom when reefed or dropping it and the boom doesn't drop on the deck when reefing anymore! I just have to watch out when hoisting for the first 1 or 2 feet to make sure the square top batten doesn't get caught but it's fine after that (and fairly wide anyway thanks to the the spreader tip termination) so hasn't been a problem.



Sorry for the really crappy pictures (the lens on my phone is all scratched up so it's all fuzzy...), I should take some better ones next time I'm out! This was the first mock up, I then made the different bits out of 7/64 dyneema.

 

[Ajax]

I have a Lazy Jack bag made of Textilene mesh fabric, without stiffeners along the edges, on my Express 37 with an Ullman carbon main. It makes flaking the main, while singlehanded, possible and controls the folds when reefed. I am on my second one. I wouldn't be without it. 

This is interesting. Do you cover the sail with anything else or does the mesh bag provide enough UV protection? The ventilation aspect of mesh is enticing because it lets the sail breathe and inhibits the growth of mildew.

 

[Jono]

Has anyone come up with a cunning plan to have both a lazy bag c/w lazy jacks and still allow letter box drops?

I'm thinking a loose foot main with the lazy bag folded under the foot and then against the main with the strings inside the fabric. Only thing would be the lazyjacks wouldn't work as a topping lift.

 

[joe.barry]

For storage, I flake the sail on the LJbag. The sail pushes the lines out so the bag acts as a Table to flake the main on. I slack the LJ lines and the main drapes over each side of the boom. I put the sail ties on, slack the LJ lines and pull them to the mast. Then I put a standard mainsail cover on. 

I have Harken cars on the main, so I let 8 cars come off the track so the head is a lot lower. The cars that remain on the mast are tied together with a sail tie, so the halyard can pull them up in a group, making putting the loose cars back on the track, way easy.

 

[Timbo]

We used a section of old sail that had delaminated. Sewed a cord down the middle with a rod at either end. 
if we think it’s going to be a struggle we get it from below thread it down the slot in the top of the boom tie on the lazy lines to the d rings and drop the main into it.
Most of the time we can get the sail down and flaked without having to set it up but when the wind is up around 15 knots you have to motor so hard to windward to stop the bow getting blown off with the auto helm on that it’s easier to just dump it and deal with it on the mooring. If it’s still really blowing we have just untied the lazy lines folded the ends over the sail and put the cover over the lot.
One of the more stressful parts of sailing short handed is trying to flake a sail whilst heading for the rocks with the auto helm alarm going off because it can’t hold a course, you want to be close to shore to get out the wind with one eye on the depth and your sail ties have blown off the winch where they were hanging, fun times.