Mainsail furling, why it's so problematic compared to headsail furling, can it be improved?

[Panoramix]

For me, the performance issues are greatly outweighed by the safety advantage and ease of furling from the cockpit.  also the workload.  
 

on my last boat, It took us up to ten laborious minutes to get the 700sq/foot main up with a 2:1 halyard and manual winch at the mast.  Made me use the main only for longer passages.  
 

I thought about in boom but the loads/friction on hoisting and the risk factor of having a super heavy boom made me favor in mast. 
 

Although static stability suffers, i suspect that dynamic stability (inertia) of the heavier stick might help prevent inversions. 
 

just did an atlantic crossing on a friends 2009 boat with a Marchal/Bamar in mast and we broke the boom.  Having in mast furling was a blessing in that case.  
 

Rare, of course but my point is that everything can break.  Maintain ur gear and use caution when pressing buttons etc and take your choice. 

70 sqm main, that's just coming into big boat territory...

Now imagine, you've switched to a furler and the furler is stuck, how are you going to deal with this mainsail you could barely raise before the furler ?

Why not just adding an electric winch to raise the main at the push of a button ? At least if it stops functioning  you can still sail the boat... If the halyard gets jammed at the top (possibly worst case scenario), you can always send somebody up with the spinnaker halyard to cut it, if the main tears itself, chances are that you can get it down from deck etc... On a main you need to host, it naturally wants to go down so it is easier to sort out.

 

[BOKSAROX]

What He said.  Panoramix

 

[Frank White]

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Dave_W]

I most always single-hand my 26'. It came with a roller furl headsail system and a large inventory of different headsails. I wish it did not have the RF and the headsails that all require manual feeding of the luff tape into the foil slot. It is a royal pain to do single-handed. All hanked on headsails would be my strong preference. It would then be much easier to select the headsail I want for the expected wind conditions each time I sail.

It will be painful to convert everything back to hanks but I may do it anyway. On a 26' it is quite easy to hank on a sail, hoist it, and douse it, all single-handed.

I prefer choosing the right sail for the conditions even though I no longer race. I still pay attention to proper sail shape and trim and with the headsail roller furler I feel like I am always compromised there and it just bugs me. If I only wanted to get out on the water with minimum fuss and work I would buy a powerboat. I prefer to practice the art of proper sailing.

How about having double forestays (and 2 back stays to balance it), you can get the next headsail up before your remove the previous one?

 

[danstanford]

What could possibly go wrong?

View attachment 496394

Powered winch or someone who had no touch? I had furling sails get caught up a few times but a gentle touch back and forth always straightened it out. 

 

[kiwin]

This brings back memories of sailing a stern 65 ketch across the Atlantic. On the leg Acores-Portugal we ended up with about 35-40 knots of northerly as we closed the seperation scheme off Cabo Sao Vicente. Our efforts to reef main & mizzen ended up with both in mast spars jammed in the slot, acres of flogging sailcloth and yours truly up the rig desperately trying to kick the wretched items back into the mast where they belonged while my other half avoided getting run over by ships.

Eventually I prevailed but I am sure my life has been shortened by that experience. I have never had a real problem with slab reefing. I have a collection of other horror stories regarding roller furling mains. Just say no.

 

[slug zitski]

This brings back memories of sailing a stern 65 ketch across the Atlantic. On the leg Acores-Portugal we ended up with about 35-40 knots of northerly as we closed the seperation scheme off Cabo Sao Vicente. Our efforts to reef main & mizzen ended up with both in mast spars jammed in the slot, acres of flogging sailcloth and yours truly up the rig desperately trying to kick the wretched items back into the mast where they belonged while my other half avoided getting run over by ships.

Eventually I prevailed but I am sure my life has been shortened by that experience. I have never had a real problem with slab reefing. I have a collection of other horror stories regarding roller furling mains. Just say no.

Practice proper seamanship , Improve your skill level and you won’t have problems 

 

[El Borracho]

Does the thread title have it backwards? I wish my genoa would reef and furl as nicely as my mainsail. What a dream that would be. The main reefs and furls nicely with moderate effort from full size thru several reefs down to neatly stowed. Good sail shape and minimal windage at every stage. The genoa, on the other hand, is only good when flying full. At every other condition it is undesirable. Especially furled.

Why would any sailor want that for a mainsail?

 

[Student_Driver]

70 sqm main, that's just coming into big boat territory...

Now imagine, you've switched to a furler and the furler is stuck, how are you going to deal with this mainsail you could barely raise before the furler ?

Why not just adding an electric winch to raise the main at the push of a button ? At least if it stops functioning  you can still sail the boat... If the halyard gets jammed at the top (possibly worst case scenario), you can always send somebody up with the spinnaker halyard to cut it, if the main tears itself, chances are that you can get it down from deck etc... On a main you need to host, it naturally wants to go down so it is easier to sort out.

That would be a problem.  On the other hand when we broke our boom on a 67 foot boat 900 miles from Cape Verde, that was a problem too.  If we had a traditional mainsail someone might have been badly hurt or killed trying to contain the sail.  We were able to push a button and minimize a very large vector of risk.  Let’s be honest.  Each system has risks and rewards.  I choose the risks of in mast furling and am comfortable with them.  

700 sq/ft is big.  If I had a boat under 40’ I might see the trade off differently.  Notice that CL and others in favor of furlers have bigger sails to deal with.  

 

[Student_Driver]

If my last boat did not need so much work, I would have put an additional electric winch in the cockpit and run the halyards back.   When I decided to sell that boat, I decided to take a performance hit to ensure that I could avoid leaving the cockpit while offshore.  I appreciate  that there can be instances where in mast can fail and jam.  Many competent sailors I know who have in mast rarely have problems by maintaining a tight roll by controlling the outhaul pressure.  
 

I have thought about designing a V-shaped blade that could be hoisted on a spare halyard to cut the luff of the main from the foot to the head allowing it to be cut away and abandoned.  I hope it never comes to that.  I also hope that all the airplane I fly on don’t loose control of their rudders or ailerons.  
 

Again. Each system has risks.  Proper maintenance and skilled application can make those risks marginal but not zero.  

 

[Panoramix]

 On the other hand when we broke our boom on a 67 foot boat 900 miles from Cape Verde, that was a problem too.  If we had a traditional mainsail someone might have been badly hurt or killed trying to contain the sail.  

Bear away or luff @70AWA release the halyard and the mainsail comes down while the flying bits are not above your head!Once the boom bits are low enough fish them or cut away if fishing for rig bits is unsafe! With a broken boom, there is no guarantee that the mainsail will furl properly, depending how the boom broke, tension in clew might not be toward the right direction!

 

[floater]

All hanked on headsails would be my strong preference. It would then be much easier to select the headsail from all the bags I store below and take up room whether I use them or not, then wrestle it out of its niche - through the companionway, and then carry it up to the foredeck. Now, unbag it and carefully hank it on.  and don't forget to uncleat the halyard and get some slack (oh shit) walk back and do that. then, manipulate the little fitting at the tack (why do they make this hardware so difficult to use!). Now, we're set. of course this old bag has lost some shape - maybe I should have used that nice mylar 120 instead - small sails work surprisingly well in the light stuff anyway - oh well. Now, upon return. go forward, release the halyard - keep the damn sail out of the drink. get it all down on deck. now we have to carefully fold it (ah shit, its just an old bag anyway - I'll just make it happen right here on the foredeck. carefully unclip all the hanks. don't forget that nitpicky tack. somehow slide the beast back into its bag. and don't forget to put the halyard away and snug it up. Now, wrestle the bag below and find a home for the damp thing somewhere down here..  I want for the expected wind conditions each time I sail.

fify.

 

[Surfer7]

fify.

No you didn't.

I have three different headsails I would like to keep onboard my 26' S2 7.9. A 150, a 135, and 100 racing jib with battens which is a great sail for single-handing in a strong blow. The battened headsail doesn't like the roller furler for some reason.

Amusing little story you told though.

 

[floater]

story? that was non-fiction.. 

 

[floater]

except I forgot about the sheets. don't forget to grab the sheets too. and carefully tie them on pre-sail. then, post sail, untie and coil them both. and put them away again..

it's insane how much time, effort, and storage a furling headsail represents. and so. I guess that's why the OP posted this.. lol.

(of course, for a race boat its all different. nuffsaid). 

 

[Surfer7]

the sheets. don't forget to grab the sheets too. and carefully tie them on pre-sail

I use a soft shackle. about 10 seconds to attach or remove. The sheets remain installed on deck (threaded thru the blocks and back to each winch). But hey, just because I prefer to do things a certain way doesn't mean I will look down on those that do it a different way.

 

[floater]

wait. so you've a 4.1ksb? better than a 4ksb. anyday..

 

[Tylo]

What could possibly go wrong?

View attachment 496394

Jesus... Must have been a pretty loud thonk when that popped out.

 

[Will O'Haver]

Your mainsail needs to have more of a "foil" shape than your genoa on most boats. You really need those horizontal battens, and a main with some roach to it. The equipment for in -  mast furling is often pretty hidden away, and the reason you hear of it failing so often is because many people don't properly maintain the equipment. It can easily jam up, because you're not just rolling the sail around itself, you're also pulling it into the rig. Just lots of stuff to cause fouls. I'd go with lazy jacks, and a nice slugged mainsail.