Manual Altitude Control vs Wand
- Thread starter Doug Lord
- Start date
jackattack
Anarchist
Deleting your post and reposting in an hour later doesn't suddenly make it right Dougie.
Doug Lord
Super Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #43
======================
Jackie, you're right. I couldn't figure out how to add #3-but this worked well. As far as "making it right"-it doesn't need to be made right: it is 100% in Phils own words and just goes to show that his attitude toward manual altitude control probably suffers from the same lack of "technical imagination".
I'll guarantee you that the following quote is no more accurate than the early prognostications about large foilers. What is a real shame is that a man of Phils intelligence would make such hard and fast comments back then and turn around and make the same mistake again today:
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atypicalguy
Anarchist
PorVida
Member
Canting keels will change the world of sailing as we know it!!!!!
Paraphrased quote by Doug Lord three years ago. So far, the only impact that canting keels have had on the world of sailing is precisely the same as it was when he made the comment. Racing boats and what... two weasel attempts to put them on non-racers that have been virtually ignored by the buying public.
Yep, Doug, you certainly got that one right. Changing the world of sailing as we know it...
More than three years ago, by Doug Lord... Bi-foil technology will sweep the sailing world and establish new realms of sailing performance!!!
Well, Douglas, I think that any reasonable man would very clearly say that bi-foilers have not swept the sailing world. They are being sold to a collection of those interested in the potential, but the larger sailing world still views the whole thing as a novelty and very seriously not for their tastes. What do you want to bet that the lowly O'penBIC has sold four times as many boats into the market place than the total of foiling craft? Hell, the Laser is most likely still outselling foilers and how old is that design?
We're not exactly seeing the big broom, Douglas. Where is the power in your ability to predict?
There's more Dougie, there's lots more... shall I go on?
Geeeezus, DL, get your fat butt out to the garage and produce something that shows that you have even a tiny inkling of what you spew, day in and day out.
Paraphrased quote by Doug Lord three years ago. So far, the only impact that canting keels have had on the world of sailing is precisely the same as it was when he made the comment. Racing boats and what... two weasel attempts to put them on non-racers that have been virtually ignored by the buying public.
Yep, Doug, you certainly got that one right. Changing the world of sailing as we know it...
More than three years ago, by Doug Lord... Bi-foil technology will sweep the sailing world and establish new realms of sailing performance!!!
Well, Douglas, I think that any reasonable man would very clearly say that bi-foilers have not swept the sailing world. They are being sold to a collection of those interested in the potential, but the larger sailing world still views the whole thing as a novelty and very seriously not for their tastes. What do you want to bet that the lowly O'penBIC has sold four times as many boats into the market place than the total of foiling craft? Hell, the Laser is most likely still outselling foilers and how old is that design?
We're not exactly seeing the big broom, Douglas. Where is the power in your ability to predict?
There's more Dougie, there's lots more... shall I go on?
Geeeezus, DL, get your fat butt out to the garage and produce something that shows that you have even a tiny inkling of what you spew, day in and day out.
I agree, Doug its easy as grabbing a camera, using your legs for walking in the direction of the garage and taking a pic of something, anything! Really what are you afaid of? Somehow I think you would gain so much more appreciation of your ideas and presumptions on these forums if you actually produced something or were seen to produce something (such as: "here's a bunch of materials for a boat" or "here's some random drawings I was playing with earlier"). Doesn't it get you down that every post to add is subject not to what your actually saying, but straight insults. I would stop posting personally, until you can produce evidence of something and then ram that down necks.
Actually I couldn't give a shit about foils, I've used them before, think there great but couldn't give a shit. I just read these posts cause you make it amusing, thanks.
bgulari
Super Anarchist
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SimonN
Super Anarchist
Doug
I have tried to keep out of your threads of late because you contribute nothing of value and repeat the same stuff, over and over. However, there are times that you are such an arse that comment is needed.
You don't seem to realise that most things come down to credibility. Somebody like Phil has it. You do not. Phil has it because he has built more foilers and foils than all but a few professionals. He has tried more ideas than probably anybody else and best of all, it is documented and there are photos. Many of us have seen him foiling. Yet you tell us that he has no credibility.
Against that, you expect us to think you have credibility. You have built 1 "foiler" (RC models really do not count) which, even by your most optimistic description, didn't really work as most people would say that to call it even a partial success it needed to be able to foil around a course. Your foils were made by somebody else. You have no documented evidence of your achievements - no photos - no witnesses. In fact, what you have described as your experiences when sailing your foiler doesn't even sound like somebody who has foiled. You rely exclusively on information taken from such reliable sources as blogs, forums and 3rd hand reports. Best of all, you have told everybody for many years that you are building a new boat yet you are the only person I know who won't show even a little evidence of work moving ahead even though it would give you some credibility which, in case you don't get it, you have none of. Worst of all, you tell almost everybody who does foil that they don't know what they are talking about.
Try doing rather than talking. Then you might get some respect.
And BTW, I so much appreciated learning about how long it takes me to get from one side of the 18 to the other. I have clearly been deluding myself about what I am capable of when the need arises.
I have tried to keep out of your threads of late because you contribute nothing of value and repeat the same stuff, over and over. However, there are times that you are such an arse that comment is needed.
You don't seem to realise that most things come down to credibility. Somebody like Phil has it. You do not. Phil has it because he has built more foilers and foils than all but a few professionals. He has tried more ideas than probably anybody else and best of all, it is documented and there are photos. Many of us have seen him foiling. Yet you tell us that he has no credibility.
Against that, you expect us to think you have credibility. You have built 1 "foiler" (RC models really do not count) which, even by your most optimistic description, didn't really work as most people would say that to call it even a partial success it needed to be able to foil around a course. Your foils were made by somebody else. You have no documented evidence of your achievements - no photos - no witnesses. In fact, what you have described as your experiences when sailing your foiler doesn't even sound like somebody who has foiled. You rely exclusively on information taken from such reliable sources as blogs, forums and 3rd hand reports. Best of all, you have told everybody for many years that you are building a new boat yet you are the only person I know who won't show even a little evidence of work moving ahead even though it would give you some credibility which, in case you don't get it, you have none of. Worst of all, you tell almost everybody who does foil that they don't know what they are talking about.
Try doing rather than talking. Then you might get some respect.
And BTW, I so much appreciated learning about how long it takes me to get from one side of the 18 to the other. I have clearly been deluding myself about what I am capable of when the need arises.
Please dont quote doug, i'm ignoring him and this way he slips through the net. I just log in to read all the insults and see how long it takes me to work out what the theme of his latest rant is about.
First, this "gentleman" believes he gains credability by critisizing any counter argument. This soon turns into character assasinations on both sides and both sides loose some credability along the way. Acutally doing something and saying on topic are the best way to gain credability.
Second, there are no pictures of ongoing work other than doodles and CAD drawings because the whold project is in design paralysis due to attempts to figure out a way to put the next latest trick in to the bag.
Third, it may be possible to manually control the attitude of a foiling boat better than a wand but all who have spent even a small amount of time on something like a Moth knows that it is highly imipractical due to sensory overload even at the current state.
Forth, some of the main reasons canting keels don't rule is cost, complexity, and I'll be damned if I'm going sailing only to have to run a motor the whole time to provide hydrolics with power. Sure everyone would like to foil but everyone would also like to ski like Jean Claude. I get the same thing with the Swift. Everyone thinks it lookes lovely, would love to have a go, but then decides they'll be godsmacked to be able to keep the think upright for more that a few yards.
To see good examples of how to gain credit, read the DC Canoe thread and see how honest many of the posters have been over strengths and weakensses of their designs and construction methods have been. Photo's of all their work from start to finish and most importantly, there is a finished product.
Quibling over he said she sail is counter productive. As is dispensing with comments from people who are at the leading edge of the curve and have tried almost everything before. Sure there may, some day, be a novel way of doing it, but for now, manual control or the use of motors and servos is a non starter. At least for me. If I want a fucking motor to play on the water, I'd join the rest of the idiots with a PWC. Not going to happen.
Second, there are no pictures of ongoing work other than doodles and CAD drawings because the whold project is in design paralysis due to attempts to figure out a way to put the next latest trick in to the bag.
Third, it may be possible to manually control the attitude of a foiling boat better than a wand but all who have spent even a small amount of time on something like a Moth knows that it is highly imipractical due to sensory overload even at the current state.
Forth, some of the main reasons canting keels don't rule is cost, complexity, and I'll be damned if I'm going sailing only to have to run a motor the whole time to provide hydrolics with power. Sure everyone would like to foil but everyone would also like to ski like Jean Claude. I get the same thing with the Swift. Everyone thinks it lookes lovely, would love to have a go, but then decides they'll be godsmacked to be able to keep the think upright for more that a few yards.
To see good examples of how to gain credit, read the DC Canoe thread and see how honest many of the posters have been over strengths and weakensses of their designs and construction methods have been. Photo's of all their work from start to finish and most importantly, there is a finished product.
Quibling over he said she sail is counter productive. As is dispensing with comments from people who are at the leading edge of the curve and have tried almost everything before. Sure there may, some day, be a novel way of doing it, but for now, manual control or the use of motors and servos is a non starter. At least for me. If I want a fucking motor to play on the water, I'd join the rest of the idiots with a PWC. Not going to happen.
Doug Lord
Super Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #52
=============
Simon, that is not true: it is precisely because he does have credibility that his comments about manual control are so shortsighted. That is backed up by HIS OWN WORDS regarding a foiler like Mirabaud doing what it does: he specifically said it was not possible!!! So when a Phil Stevenson says manual control has been tried and found impossible pardon me if I'm just a little skeptical. Phil has great credibility in sailing but his forecasts of what is possible with the new bi-foil technology have, unfortunately, been dead wrong. And it is a shame when someone with Phils credibility makes a statement like "no foiler bigger than a Moth will ever foil" or "manual control has been tried and found to be impossible". I mean it is damned unfortunate and it is hoped that the true innovators will pay no attention whatsoever. Which is just another reason why Mirabauds experiments with manual control are so significant.
BalticBandit
Super Anarchist
- 11,114
- 36
Doug
Some people are willing to admit they were wrong. Until Phil stands by his older words, you have no business trying to discredit Phil with them
What is clear - and what you still don't get - is that your hostiility in the online realm guarantees that any "success" you might have in building a People's Foiler or a "Trapwing skiff" will result in it being shunned by the very community you want to sell it into.
Again, I realize you won't believe anything any of us say.
SO GET AN EXPERT OPINION.
Print Off the pages here.
Take $150 of what would be a Marketing Budget for your project, take the pages and go to either a Marketing Image consultant or an Organizational Psychologist and have them explain to you the dynamics THEY see operating here.
PorVida
Member
Marketing Budget...?
You give Doug far too much credit as an organized entity in that regard. Doug's marketing effort is to blab as often and as abusively as he can muster from the worn-out easy chair he has plopped in front of the TV at his Mom's apartment in Cocoa Beach.
Douglas is truly an enigma because he is too afraid of being honest about his life. It's far easier to create this overwhelming sense of bravado and so-called boaty creativity, than to just fess-up with the gang and become very much like all the rest of us.
To that end.... Doug, I encourage you to drop the pretense of superiority you have created over the years and simply get on with it as a regular guy. We all have warts, we all have our little victories and the rest is the crap we toss-out on the Internet. These are good guys here, if you simply meet them half way with your heady pronouncements.
Quit calling other people absurd while trotting out long strings of useless numbers. Get yourself at the same place where everyone can coexist peacefully and openly share your work. Post your best effort drawings and photos and learn to be happy that you have that talent. Believe me, there are lots of guys here who can't draw their way out of a bag, so go for it. You don't have to produce a Michelangelo level of rendering in order to make your presence valid.
I have not seen one person on this Forum who would not openly welcome you into the fraternity (there has not been any women yet with the lack of sense to join this goofball parade) and invite you to show your work as a sharing member of the clan. So clear the decks of your past behavior and reach out as a citizen of the dinghy community. Lay down the defensiveness and put your efforts in the hands of the folks who can truly give you solid feedback. Trust that you don't know everything of this genre and that you never will. That's where the fellowship gives you rich rewards. The whole is greater than its individual parts.
It's time to step away from the braggadocio of fitful desperation and just be one of the guys.
What do you say?
Chris O
You give Doug far too much credit as an organized entity in that regard. Doug's marketing effort is to blab as often and as abusively as he can muster from the worn-out easy chair he has plopped in front of the TV at his Mom's apartment in Cocoa Beach.
Douglas is truly an enigma because he is too afraid of being honest about his life. It's far easier to create this overwhelming sense of bravado and so-called boaty creativity, than to just fess-up with the gang and become very much like all the rest of us.
To that end.... Doug, I encourage you to drop the pretense of superiority you have created over the years and simply get on with it as a regular guy. We all have warts, we all have our little victories and the rest is the crap we toss-out on the Internet. These are good guys here, if you simply meet them half way with your heady pronouncements.
Quit calling other people absurd while trotting out long strings of useless numbers. Get yourself at the same place where everyone can coexist peacefully and openly share your work. Post your best effort drawings and photos and learn to be happy that you have that talent. Believe me, there are lots of guys here who can't draw their way out of a bag, so go for it. You don't have to produce a Michelangelo level of rendering in order to make your presence valid.
I have not seen one person on this Forum who would not openly welcome you into the fraternity (there has not been any women yet with the lack of sense to join this goofball parade) and invite you to show your work as a sharing member of the clan. So clear the decks of your past behavior and reach out as a citizen of the dinghy community. Lay down the defensiveness and put your efforts in the hands of the folks who can truly give you solid feedback. Trust that you don't know everything of this genre and that you never will. That's where the fellowship gives you rich rewards. The whole is greater than its individual parts.
It's time to step away from the braggadocio of fitful desperation and just be one of the guys.
What do you say?
Chris O
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Doug Lord said:
oh look someone's sounding hostile!!
Is there a pic of any of these foiling contraptions you speak of doug? To be honest I'd really like to see them, and how about some of that huge database of foiling information (please note: your own, not someone else's, and no numbers noone really reads them and i have no idea what they mean).
Also since your not going to the gorge to monkey moth for all the world to see why don't transfer the money used to fly you over there and buy you a nice digital camera instead so you can take heaps of loverly pics of your super, fantastic, terrible, fun foilers.
A real good project for you to show the world your tremendous abilities would have been to create a monkey moth and have some gun sailer to rip-it-up at the gorge worlds, if it worked then you could sell them to finance a multitude of prototype products. Sometimes in order to be recognised and appreciated you have to do the mainstream things right, really, really well.
PorVida
Member
Blah Blah Blah
What a self-induced, delusional feedback loop of nonsense
There is no end to the inanity of it all
What a self-induced, delusional feedback loop of nonsense
There is no end to the inanity of it all
BalticBandit
Super Anarchist
- 11,114
- 36
I'm telling you. DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT.Doug Lord said:
Spent $150 out of the marketing funds for the Trapwing Skiff and take the contents of these pages to a Marketing specialist. Pay them for 2 hours of time and let them read through this stuff and tell you what THEY think of your attitude.
The Black Pearl
Member
Was going to join in the discussion, loved he photo of Bora...... dont get sucked in to this....... it's going the usual way.....
wind_apparent said:
Your bang on! I'm gonna stop commenting on your posts doug because you fail, you just plain fail. Unless of course your more amusing than usual.
Just like your quote from your post in the multihull forum "pics or it didn't happen", doug, it never happened.
