Mapfre docked 2 points for altering yacht

staysail

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Discussion started off under the "Sails" thread

Tunnel Rat, on 17 Apr 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

Mapre have been penalised by two points for not informing the VCA about the repairs to the outrigger and the battens in the bow!

http://www.volvoocea...tj-20150416.pdf

Do you think Iker will be happy?

Nothing yet on the other cases which are Vestas Wind application to use the Pre-Race J3, Dong's request to use the Pre-Race main and SCA request to use a Pre-Race FR0
Interesting.

Seem to be very serious infringements of multiple rules and seemingly, if fixing the battens to the hull was deemed not necessary repairs by the jury they can only have been done to make the boat different and stronger than all the others. If they used spare battens whch they would otherwise have carried, this strengthing was done without even adding weight.
Questions that will raise, (see items 3 and 4 of the conclusions).

1) Will Mapfre have to be converted back to one-design and have the extra longitudinals removed before the next races? Surely the other competitors must protest if they are not sailing against an equal boat.

2) How come Mapfre is not disqualified? or at least dsq from the last leg?

 

Your Mom

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2) How come Mapfre is not disqualified? or at least dsq from the last leg?
Check out Conclusion #5. The jury concluded it wasn't with the intent to improve performance... which I guess is why they didn't go all the way to DSQ. Although I agree with your rationale for thinking based on #'s 3 and 4 that it must have been done to make the boat better. And it's hard to say a racing boat is made better without saying you improved its performance. So there's a paradox in the conclusions.

Which leads me to think they started with the punishment ("this seems like something we should dock them 2 points for") and then wrote conclusions to support that punishment... partly because no one on Mapfre was going to ever actually SAY they did it to improve performance and no one could directly prove that they did it for that reason.

 

Panoramix

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I can understand the logic of the jury but this is becoming more like the Olympic games than a round the world race where traditionnaly crew needs boat fixing/tweaking capabilities. It goes away from rewarding seamanship.

 

couchsurfer

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Mapfre speaks up.........

http://desafiomapfre.com/xabi-es-una-penalizacion-desmedida-para-una-falta-puramente-administrativa/

This morning has published the resolution of a protest Race Committee to the Spanish team for not asking permission to perform the repairs -a an outrigger (outrigger) and another from the bow, carried on board during the last fifth stage, the hardest and set in the Southern Ocean.
The rule of the Volvo Ocean 65 class requires that if a team consider making a repair must immediately inform the Authority of the Volvo Ocean Class 65 (VCA). Following the report of a meter, Jack Lloyd, director of regata-, presented the protest to understand that the Spanish team did not report on time and in the form required for both repairs. However, the International Jury has recognized in its report that repairs performed by the "MAPFRE" were not made with the intention of improving the performance of the boat. And in fact did not increase speed but quite the opposite.
As explained by the pattern of the next stage, Xabi Fernández, at the press conference of patterns that was held this morning in Itajaí (noon in Spain), "It has been a hard day and quite complicated for us. First, in the previous stage we fought hard, as we always do. We had good conditions in the Southern Ocean, but of course with strong winds and always having to drive to the fullest, because the other teams do too. But I also believe that one of the things we did was to maintain the safety, boat and crew, provided the latter above all. When we have problems on board or thought we could have them, we have to face them and find a solution soon. "
"We as offshore sailors, we have the experience and the obligation to deal with problems as they come avoiding unnecessary risks, and that I think is an added value that we have as a team and all offshore sailors. From experience, at the expense of many problems and lost points in the past, learn and are more prepared, "said Xabi.
"I believe we acted properly, gave solution to two problems we had on board, reduced risk and would do it a thousand times. I stress that results from being well prepared and experienced, as we were well prepared if you had to make an emergency stop in Ushuaia (Argentina), since in the last three or four times we have been there we have always had problems and so we had to part of the ground crew on standby ready and waiting in Ushuaia with all materials ready to repair. "
That said, Fernandez said on behalf of his team to consider "totally excessive for possible administrative offense we have committed" penalty and added that "we will try to reverse our team advisers to try to take back these two points they have taken from us. "
"As you know we are finishing stages all close together, four vessels in an hour last time. We fought a lot for a point to lose now two points in this way, it is too much and is completely out of action ", has ruled the Basque Olympic champion.
"We take note of these bureaucratic issues for the future, but we disagree with the solution you have given to this. We will continue fighting hard, though of course lose two points in the overall mean much, "concluded Xabi Fernández.
 

damnyankee

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This seems a self inflicted wound if ever there was one (ok, Vestas, but lets skip that).

If you see one of the bits is wrong, or about to go wrong, break, explode, etc. you can either

1.Call it in and ask for a judgement call/blessing to fix it from Race Authority or

2. fix it, and call it in or

3. let it break, then call it in.

Under all three scenarios, calling it in seems like the no brainer.

By contrast, NOT calling it in, makes you look bad and conspiracy theorists run the show from there.

They are being spanked for not calling it in.

Am I missing something?

 

damnyankee

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Couchsurfer wrote.... "the Spanish team did not report on time and in the form required for both repairs. However, the International Jury has recognized in its report that repairs performed by the "MAPFRE" were not made with the intention of improving the performance of the boat. And in fact did not increase speed but quite the opposite."

OK THAT makes me nervous.

Either they reported it- or they didn't.

If these guys are getting shanked because they didn't fill out the right form, that is BS.

If they didn't report it AT ALL, its on them.

 

couchsurfer

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......^^....that comment's a quote of Mapfre. Quite on the contrary,,,I think although the 'repair' didn't speed up the boat,,,it's sole function was to give the crew added confidence in their ability to push the boat. I don't blame them a bit for this after their last experience,,,but also see how it would make a substantive difference on how much they're willing to -push- things :mellow:

it sounds like the only 'report' was the video we all saw...not a word ahead of time to the organizers

...from Volvo..........http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/8761_The-jury-decides.html

The Spanish team MAPFRE were given a two-point penalty on Thursday by the ISAF-appointed independent jury for rules breaches during Leg 5 of the Volvo Ocean Race.

After hearing evidence from Race Management and the team on Wednesday, the jury, headed by Bernard Bonneau, ruled that the Spanish team had applied repairs and alterations on the hull and on an outrigger without informing the Volvo Ocean 65 Class Authority (VCA) and therefore broke the Volvo Ocean 65 class rules as well as the race rules.

The Volvo Ocean 65 class rules require that if a team considers that a repair is necessary, it shall inform the VCA immediately.

Bonneau added that the five-strong jury had decided that the work was not done with the purpose of improving the performance of the Spanish team during Leg 5 and their second place in the stage stands.

The ruling, however, means that their overall points total is now 20 after five legs and they thus drop from fourth to fifth in the standings.

The team had earlier argued in the hearing through their rules advisor, Luis Sáenz Mariscal, that in both cases with their bow and outrigger, skipper Iker Martínez had made the reinforcements because of fears that both were damaged.

Sáenz Mariscal added that the outrigger had broken on previous occasions in the race and the crew had heard a bang from the bow and feared it was delaminating.

He said that in Southern Ocean conditions, Martínez feared that the boat and crew were in danger if the measures were not taken. He said the crew had not informed the VCA, but had openly shared video content showing repairs to Race Control in Alicante, Spain.

 
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couchsurfer

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....I have to admit to wondering WTF?! when I saw this repair....relatively early in the leg,,,,way too minor if there's an actual structural issue :wacko: I can only think it would allow a bit more confidence to push harder, but overall it's likely a bit of PTSD from the crew's last terrifying experience. :mellow: I don't blame them.

The story behind @desafioMAPFRE loosing 2 points for rule infringements: http://bit.ly/the-jury-decides #VOR



 
Couchsurfer wrote.... "the Spanish team did not report on time and in the form required for both repairs. However, the International Jury has recognized in its report that repairs performed by the "MAPFRE" were not made with the intention of improving the performance of the boat. And in fact did not increase speed but quite the opposite."

OK THAT makes me nervous.

Either they reported it- or they didn't.

If these guys are getting shanked because they didn't fill out the right form, that is BS.

If they didn't report it AT ALL, its on them.
Any one paying attention to the daily feeds or the various episodes saw what they were doing with the battens. They did a whole segment showing Iker Martinez up forward with his miner light on and glue gun and battens in hand. They told the whole world what they were doing.

 

couchsurfer

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Couchsurfer wrote.... "the Spanish team did not report on time and in the form required for both repairs. However, the International Jury has recognized in its report that repairs performed by the "MAPFRE" were not made with the intention of improving the performance of the boat. And in fact did not increase speed but quite the opposite."

OK THAT makes me nervous.

Either they reported it- or they didn't.

If these guys are getting shanked because they didn't fill out the right form, that is BS.

If they didn't report it AT ALL, its on them.
Any one paying attention to the daily feeds or the various episodes saw what they were doing with the battens. They did a whole segment showing Iker Martinez up forward with his miner light on and glue gun and battens in hand. They told the whole world what they were doing.

I think the point is that you're meant to ask before you do a repair....

......especially since there was nothing critical going on. :mellow:

....makes me wonder what other strict OD's these lads have sailed :rolleyes: .....

"We've been penalised for an administrative problem & we're losing 2 pts" - Xabi Fernández, @desafioMAPFRE #VOR

 
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F18 Sailor

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Any details on the bow delamination? Did it actually delaminate? I've got my doubts they went through the trouble of putting battens in that area and getting ground crew on standby in Ushuaia if there wasn't a problem.

 

couchsurfer

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Any details on the bow delamination? Did it actually delaminate? I've got my doubts they went through the trouble of putting battens in that area and getting ground crew on standby in Ushuaia if there wasn't a problem.

...methinks it's PTSD from last round...it would be terrifying to have had that going on. The slightest groan and I know I'd be back in Auckland :mellow:

 

couchsurfer

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...sounds like Iker's away. I wonder if this was his call? :unsure:

....http://desafiomapfre.com/en/xabi-a-disproportionate-penalty-for-a-simple-administrative-error/

The resolution of a protest made by the Regatta Committee to the Spanish team for not asking for permission before undertaking repairs to an outrigger, and another to the bow, during the fifth and toughest leg of the race in the Southern Ocean, was published this morning.

The Volvo Ocean 65 class rule requires a team to immediately inform the Volvo Ocean 65 Class Authority (VCA) if a team considers a repair necessary. A report from one of the measurer’s Jack Lloyd (Race Director) led to the presentation of the protest which upholds that the Spanish team did not provide sufficient notice in the manner required about both their repairs. However, the International Jury has recognised in their report that the repairs undertaken by MAPFRE were not made to improve the performance of their boat. In fact they did not increase the boat speed, quite the contrary.

As Skipper of the next leg of the race Xabi Fernández explained in the skippers press conference, held this morning in Itajaí (midday in Spain), “it has been a tough day and quite a complicated one for us. Firstly, in the last leg we fought really hard, as we always have done. We had good conditions in the Southern Ocean but naturally with strong winds, and we had to push to the limit as the rest of the teams were doing the same. But I also think that we kept our safety paramount: that of the boat and the crew above everything else. When we have problems on board or we think we might have, we need to deal with them and find an immediate solution.”

 
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