Marshall Sanderling 18 Catboat

[Ajax]

I saw the ballast blocks in @hopsaddict's bilge. It's true that they don't seem secured to anything but they're on either side of the centerboard trunk and the cabin liner seems to prevent them from sliding outboard during a deep heeling event. It doesn't look possible for them to shift anywhere.  I found the arrangement curious and I'm going to take a closer look.

The thing about the Sanderling that creeps me out the most is the lack of self-bailing ability and no real bilge pump. It does look possible to retrofit some of these capabilities and I'm pretty sure the owner is looking into it.

 

[deep c]

Consider joining the Catboat Association for access to the complete history of Catboat Bulletins in pdf. Wealth of knowledge there. And the Chesapeake has its own association to boot. Our  22 has cockpit drains with seacocks but 20 years sailing a Menger 19 with similar cockpit drain capacity to yours found no issues. Certainly takes a big wind to lay her over. 

 

[Ajax]

Certainly takes a big wind to lay her over. 

Or a corresponding lack of skill.

 

[Steam Flyer]

2nd the recc on Catboat Association, and also on the hazards of shifting ballast. Sounds like it could be OK, but it's worth double checking. Loose blocks of ballast are common in catboats and some other old-timey classics. My dad had one that was a little bigger, literally ballasted with bricks skewered on rebar to lock them in place. The weight combined with a big sail gives it momentum in light air, and the heft to bust thru chop in heavy air. The tricky part is steering, they like to round up. Sometimes you feel like you should hear screeching tires.

- DSK

 

[TBW]

Been sailing a Bay Hen without a self bailing cockpit for years.  Bay Hen has quite a bit more power to weight ratio than a Sanderling and almost 2 ft less beam. 

I have never come close to flipping it, reef for the conditions.  Biggest risk would be a nasty jibe in a following sea, so I take extra caution there.

Biggest hassle with not having a self bailing cockpit is when it's anchored or docked in the rain.  Foot well will eventually fill up to the point where it startes draining out through the outboard well.  If the Sanderling drains through the centreboard trunk, I would think that would be fine.  Under sailing conditions, I just have a bailing can.  A scoop every so often when it's raining is all that is needed.

The lack of self bailing cockpit might not be as big of a deal as you are thinking.

Work the peak and throat halyatds together.  Almost like a single halyard, two lines in the palm of my left hand,pull with the right.  Once the throat is up, tension the peak.   Peak halyard needs a bit of finesse, too much or too little tension will give you a funny sail shape.  There is no reason to set and forget your peak halyard, if you set it and don't like what you see 5 minutes later, adjust it.  Peak halyard on a small gaff boat can be treated like a working line.  Scandalize main for docking under sail etc.

 

[Ajax]

@TBW Well it's not my boat. I'm just helping the new owner and these are just my personal observations. I don't dislike the boat at all. The owner doesn't have a problem with the lack of self bailing.

With regards to working the peak and throat as a single line, are you supposed to start that way or are you supposed to raise the peak partway first? I've seen varying opinions on the subject.  Maybe it varies from boat to boat? I know what "scandalizing" is but I don't really know how to do it. Anyway, this stuff is for the new owner to figure out. I'm mostly here for moral support and because the opportunity to learn about gaffers interests me.

Another question:  The Sanderling uses an aluminum mast with fiberglass hoops with small bronze shackles lashed to the hoops with small stuff for the luff of the sail. Is there a better/more modern method of attaching the shackles to the hoops? If traditional lashings are still the go-to method, what is a good, UV stable twine/small stuff to use for lashing?  The stuff he has is dry rotting and not long for this world.

 

[TBW]

Some gaffers have a bit of a j shape to the jaws, others are straight.  It may be a bit easier to have peak higher than the throat of the jaws have that J shape to them.

To scandalize the main, just realease the peak halyard.  Instant reef, you cut the effective sail area in about half or less.  You don't want to sail far like this, but for scrubbing speed anchoring, docking, beaching and close quarter maneuvering it can be handy.

Not sure about the hoops.  My sail is lace on.

 

[Sail4beer]

There is rigging twine for the hoops and they are all plastic unless someone made wooden hoops custom for theirs. 

 

[Guest]

had the 18 and the 22.  i wouldn't worry about the ballast.  it's not going anywhere so long as you keep the boat right side up.  as said, raise the throat and peak together then pull up the peak maybe just a little too much.  consider starting out with a reef while you're learning.  after you feel more confident and start using the full sail, keep in mind that if you think you maybe should reef, it's probably too late.  an overpowered boat is often NOT as fast as a reefed boat. Catboats dont really like to heel.  Buy The Catboat Book by Leavens.  Loved my 18 and the 22 even more!  Oh yeah - those centerboards drains work but water will pump in while sailing if not plugged...  

 

[Sail4beer]

It doesn't look possible for them to shift anywhere. I

IIRC, there are boards in the cabin sole on either side of the centerboard trunk. The ballast can be moved into those bilges to balance the boat bow down at the dock or mooring to drain any water collected through the cockpit drains. When crew is aboard, the weight compensates for the forward ballast and the boat is balanced along it’s true waterline.

 

[hopsaddict]

Yeah. I will probably need to shift a little ballast forward. It seems to be pooling just a little water after of the cockpit scuppers with the outboard weight. Most of the ballast is under the cabin sole boards. However, a few blocks are up in the mast locker. Those might need some restraint. I'll remember to keep an eye on them the first few times we sail.

I talked to the shop guys today while buying new running rigging. I mentioned the twine for the sail shackles. They didn't really have a recommendation on what to get. So I just bought some generic nylon 5/32 twine. Got home. Did more research. Looks like old school is to use tarred marline. For now, I'll just replace the one that was already dead with the nylon. See what works.

At this point, every line on the boat will be new except for the reef lines. The only reason I didn't buy new for those is because Marshall's site didn't list sizes. So I'll have to wait until the sail is up to take a look and measure.

I think the previous owner was a bit of a rope hoarder. The boat came with tons of excess rope. I've measured it all. None of it was sized correctly to be the rigging, lift, or lazy jacks. And most of it was pretty dry. Most of it will end up in the dump eventually.

Another thing that I found that was confusing. I was looking for the battery cables. I found them on the port side. I couldn't find them on the starboard. This boat has a selector switch for which battery to use. Does anyone know if the outboard variant is supposed to not have the second set of battery cables? I find it odd that Marshall would put the power selector on the boat and not run the cables.

 

[hopsaddict]

Also, @Ajax and I swapped in some of the new rigging today. Peak halyard is attached correctly too. What a difference new lines plus full leverage makes when raising the sail! Who would have thunk?

The throat halyard is still the old line. The end looked like it was tied off up at the blocks. Does anyone know how to get at it without climbing? Or have some good picture references or a video?

Hopefully the next few hours of work on it will be enough to get it sailing.

Unfortunately, this is the weekend of doom. I fly out to meet up with my MIL and bring her back here. The escape pod will be needed!

 

[Ajax]

The sail should raise much more easily when we grease up the gaff saddle as well. Looking forward to actually getting some wind in the sail soon.

 

[DaveP]

Lots of good info! There is a Sanderling near me for sale that I am considering buying. I'll will probably use it daysailing on Puget Sound, if the water is not too rough, or just noodling around the harbor. Maybe an overnight to a nearby anchorage.

Good to hear it is fast in light air, maybe even comparable to a J22, downwind. I saw PHRF numbers online well over 300, which is a bit concerning.

 

[SemiSalt]

A friend has an Atlantic City 24 catboat. Downwind, it's as fast as all the sloops of similar loa. Upwind, it gets left behind, especially in light air.

 

[llama]

In regards to ballast and heeling and lack of skill. My catboat has 4 bags of shot up in the cuddy to counteract the outboard engine and a waterlogged rudder(since replaced with a brand new one). I certainly lack skill but catboats don’t heel that much. My tiller will fight me and become hard when it gets breezy but she stays pretty upright. The ballast never budges. It sits on the sole as I have no bilge. The boat was designed with no drains but a former owner installed one. It’s useless as tits on a bull as the lowest spot in the cockpit is around the centerboard trunk. A hand pump makes quick work of any water collected.

 

[Steam Flyer]

Sorry to be so blunt, but you guys saying "unsecured ballast is fine" are incorrect.

(edit- the following is speculation based on Slocum's own writings about his boat SPRAY)
It's what killed Joshua Slocum.
(end of speculation)

If you think your boat is always going to sit so upright that gravity will hold it in place, then you lack sufficient boating experience to understand what will inevitably, eventually, happen. Hell, it not only has to be secured in place, it needs to be secured in place strongly enough that if the Jolly Green Giant grabbed the boat by the mast and wagged it upside down, the ballast is one of the LAST things that would come out of place.

Because sometimes that's exactly what it feels like.

 

[Jim in Halifax]

Sorry to be so blunt, but you guys saying "unsecured ballast is fine" are incorrect. It's what killed Joshua Slocum.

So, you finally figured out what happened to Slocum on Spray's last voyage? Do tell. So much for the nemesis story of him being run down by a steamship...

 

[Diarmuid]

I've also heard the boat was inherently unstable and was bound to capsize sometime. Personally, I think it was aliens. Prove me wrong.

 

[Steam Flyer]

So, you finally figured out what happened to Slocum on Spray's last voyage? Do tell. So much for the nemesis story of him being run down by a steamship...

Also possible, but he complained a bunch of times about it. Dunno why he didn't fix it.

But if you think it's OK to carry loose bricks in your bilge, go ahead. I think you know better, you just wanna argue.

 

[Jim in Halifax]

Personally, I think it was aliens.

I think you're right - it was aliens...in a steamship. Moving the bricks in the bilge.