Maximum Weight for Competitive Moth Sailing

[14berlin]

I'm currently happy in the 14 class and think it's a great allround high perfomance boat. Not the fastest anymore but still a blast on the light German summer days when moths cannot take off and cats are stuck downwind. But all the development and glamourous events have moved to the Moth (and A-Class) and I feel like I'm missing out on the foiling action.

I got some airtime on a Mach2 and totally get why lots of 14 sailors get into Moth sailing lately. But I'm not sure if this can be more than a fun toy for a person my size. I'm 184cm/90kg (6'0/200lbs) with no fat to lose. 

1. weight: can this be compensated with bigger foils? Is this a big disatvantage in light wind? Is it even an advantage in any conditions?

2. height: how can somene my size with PFD fit smoothly under those decksweeper booms? I'm a young and athletic person but on a moth I just feel clumsy.

So what is the weight range in this class? I don't doubt a person my size can race a moth, I'm just afraight that I'll be stuck lowriding more often than others and that the new designs with higher wings and lower booms are even more restricting.

 

[Emilio Castelli]

Tom Slingsby 188 x 84

He seems to be doing pretty well...

E

 

[14berlin]

While searching on Slingsby I found this:

Then there’s carried weight: Nicolai Jacobsen has an additional 5kg in his starboard wing to give him a little more leverage off the start line. Ruggi Tita is another comparative lightweight (no insult intended!) who sails with an extra 7.5kg on each side. It’s a new game, and just like forever Moth sailors are in ‘development’ mode all the time.

https://www.sail-world.com/news/241389/Moth-Worlds-Thinking-about-weight-distribution

 

[onepointfivethumbs]

Supposedly with the large foil you can get up in 6-8 at 220 in a mach2

I've gotten up on an N17 and a Waszp at 275 in 12-15, probably wouldn't hold my line against Goody or Slingsby but then who can

 

[SeanPurdy]

Getting up and staying on the foils in marginal conditions is far more about technique than body weight. In any breeze the extra righting moment is always a positive - once your technique is good. Many of the top moth sailors are around your size and weight. Feeling clumsy is normal, the boat does that to you when you’re learning. (I’m a 62kg waszp sailor.)

 

[17mika]

I'm currently happy in the 14 class and think it's a great allround high perfomance boat. Not the fastest anymore but still a blast on the light German summer days when moths cannot take off and cats are stuck downwind. But all the development and glamourous events have moved to the Moth (and A-Class) and I feel like I'm missing out on the foiling action.

I got some airtime on a Mach2 and totally get why lots of 14 sailors get into Moth sailing lately. But I'm not sure if this can be more than a fun toy for a person my size. I'm 184cm/90kg (6'0/200lbs) with no fat to lose. 

1. weight: can this be compensated with bigger foils? Is this a big disatvantage in light wind? Is it even an advantage in any conditions?

2. height: how can somene my size with PFD fit smoothly under those decksweeper booms? I'm a young and athletic person but on a moth I just feel clumsy.

So what is the weight range in this class? I don't doubt a person my size can race a moth, I'm just afraight that I'll be stuck lowriding more often than others and that the new designs with higher wings and lower booms are even more restricting.

1. Weight. If you are flying easily (8knots plus) weight is simply an advantage. For the 6-10 knots range just get bigger foils and stiffer masts than others  See stories above of what ruggi and jacobsen tried to do last year to get supersmall righting moment gains.

2 height. I think it is an issue for people let's say over 195cm. Other thank that no issue at all, you can fine-tune rake to match desired height or slightly modify sail foot with same goal.

Some people gets ridicously low booms to try to find small marginal gains, but Goodison once told me something like "I privilege to have good clearance for manouvering over any small perfomance gains I could have with lower booms". And I guess he is right.

 

[17mika]

I did not answer your final question.

To me you are between 75 and 90kg you can win any world level race in any condition, it is only a matter of skill and kit.

If you are between 65-75 and 90-95 you can win races almost every condition but you will be sligthly penalized in adverse conditions.

Still you see in europe4example Dave Hivey dominating races in the light, and he is 95kg.

And the fastest moth sailor on the planet (i.e. Tom Slingsby) is definitely not 84kg,  more like 90-92 I suspect. In perth he was 95kg, not much lower now I guess

 

[14berlin]

Thank you very much! So no excuses for me  :lol:
I thought weight would be way more critical, maybe because compared to everything else the moth feels so tiny and fragile.

A little bit off-topic: it would me much easier to find a waszp in good condition here than a moth. Is this a good idea for practice? Probably way easier to maintain in the early phase.

 

[Suppenkelle]

A little bit off-topic: it would me much easier to find a waszp in good condition here than a moth. Is this a good idea for practice? Probably way easier to maintain in the early phase.

If you're into competitive Moth sailing there is no use in practicing in a WASZP first. Get in touch with the German class assoc. if you haven't already. They will point you through purchasing a suitable boat for beginning. Do not expect to win any major races in your first season. It is a steep learning curve but great fun.

 

[Doug Halsey]

I did not answer your final question.

To me you are between 75 and 90kg you can win any world level race in any condition, it is only a matter of skill and kit.

If you are between 65-75 and 90-95 you can win races almost every condition but you will be sligthly penalized in adverse conditions.

Still you see in europe4example Dave Hivey dominating races in the light, and he is 95kg.

And the fastest moth sailor on the planet (i.e. Tom Slingsby) is definitely not 84kg,  more like 90-92 I suspect. In perth he was 95kg, not much lower now I guess

Do you have any information on the weights of the boats themselves (rigged & ready to sail, but without the skipper)?

Informal weighings here in California suggest that the newer designs are considerably heavier than the older ones.

 

[17mika]

Thank you very much! So no excuses for me  :lol:
I thought weight would be way more critical, maybe because compared to everything else the moth feels so tiny and fragile.

A little bit off-topic: it would me much easier to find a waszp in good condition here than a moth. Is this a good idea for practice? Probably way easier to maintain in the early phase.

Contact Kai Adolph (ger class president). Germany is by far the buggest fleet in continental europe, so it is easy to find boats.

A lot of people are now selling exocets at finally decent prices, csuse there are some small aeronl gains  in new designs so few are switching. Bust exocet is easy, still pretty fast and very reliable.

I have nothing agaist the waszp, but there are few differences with the moth, so best just to get a good quality moth, even if with a design of 3-4 years ago

 

[17mika]

Do you have any information on the weights of the boats themselves (rigged & ready to sail, but without the skipper)?

Informal weighings here in California suggest that the newer designs are considerably heavier than the older ones.

I have no numbers, but I can confirm all latest boats are pretty heavy. I suspect no moth now ready to sail is under 40kg.

But I guess some are way above that. Biekers are bloody heavy, and I've been told they just moved to prepeg to save some weight. At garda the xploders prototypes were much lighter, but also very fragile, so I suspect final designs are heavier as well.