Maybe Storming The Capitol Wasn't Such A Good Idea

[Stingray~]

 

[Blue Crab]

Where'd the idea of incarceration for years come from?

I think there might be a chance of rehab of a non violent offender jammed up for a few months. Years? NFW.

 

[Bus Driver]

For your analogy to be accurate there would have to have been an insurrection. There was no insurrection, no one has even been charged with insurrection, let alone convicted.

You sure about that? Nowhere in the law does the word "Insurrection" appear.

18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy​

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

What we know is you are insistent that a specific word be used, or nothing really happened. Kinda like those who insisted nothing happened, because no one was charged with the crime of "collusion" (hint - it ain't a crime).

That's right up there with no investigation is needed if that wasn't a conviction.

At least you seem to better understand the analogy I used. So, there's that.

 

[Stingray~]

18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy​

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States

There are going to be so many people going down for this!

Many boots and many suits...........

 

[Blue Crab]

For your analogy to be accurate there would have to have been an insurrection. There was no insurrection, no one has even been charged with insurrection, let alone convicted.

This is just silly. This is why no one takes you seriously.

 

[Danceswithoctopus]

Are we witnessing a new variation on the Collusion vs Conspiracy theme here?

 

[SloopJonB]

You are being intentionally obtuse. Or, you’re stupid.

One from column B.

 

[phillysailor]

Far as I know, @Dog 2.0 ’s feelings on the subject are irrelevant at sentencing.

 

[Raz'r]

@Dog 2.0 is going full retard on this one.

 

[jhc]

Arguments stated on this forum regarding sentencing of the Jan 6 insurrectionists that mention rehabilitation, and shorter sentences seem to offer sympathy to the perps.
I don’t endorse leniency for these people.
Incarceration is not intended to rehabilitate. As the old saying goes, you have to make the decision to change yourself.
The purpose of long prison sentences is to protect law abiding people from criminal behavior.
Five, or ten years in a Federal prison is a long time for anyone, whether an insurrectionist, or a tech company scammer. Personally my thinking is someone convicted for conspiracy to overthrow our gov. Is far more serious than a fraudster stealing money from wealthy investors. The law apparently looks at both crimes with parity.
Bottom line is commit the crime, do the time. Actions have consequences, both good and bad. Personal experiences may vary

 

[Stingray~]

Arguments stated on this forum regarding sentencing of the Jan 6 insurrectionists that mention rehabilitation, and shorter sentences seem to offer sympathy to the perps.
I don’t endorse leniency for these people.
Incarceration is not intended to rehabilitate. As the old saying goes, you have to make the decision to change yourself.
The purpose of long prison sentences is to protect law abiding people from criminal behavior.
Five, or ten years in a Federal prison is a long time for anyone, whether an insurrectionist, or a tech company scammer. Personally my thinking is someone convicted for conspiracy to overthrow our gov. Is far more serious than a fraudster stealing money from wealthy investors. The law apparently looks at both crimes with parity.
Bottom line is commit the crime, do the time. Actions have consequences, both good and bad. Personal experiences may vary

To my mind, the violent attack on the US Capitol was truly historic.

Anyone and everyone involved needs to be locked up for a long time, some of them perhaps forever. It will be looked back at in US history for maybe centuries like with how we teach and learn from traitors in Roman Empire history.

 

[Chris in Santa Cruz CA]

You sure about that? Nowhere in the law does the word "Insurrection" appear.

18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy​

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

What we know is you are insistent that a specific word be used, or nothing really happened. Kinda like those who insisted nothing happened, because no one was charged with the crime of "collusion" (hint - it ain't a crime).

That's right up there with no investigation is needed if that wasn't a conviction.

At least you seem to better understand the analogy I used. So, there's that.

That last line is a doozy! Wait, it’s just one long sentence. Pun intended.

Seriously, ”oppose by force the authority thereof” and “two or more persons” seems easy enough to prove and they clearly seized property and hindered the execution of a law. Everyone who broke into the capital building and delayed the business of congress to complete its duties in the election is guilty of this.

 

[Dog 2.0]

You sure about that? Nowhere in the law does the word "Insurrection" appear.

18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy​

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

What we know is you are insistent that a specific word be used, or nothing really happened. Kinda like those who insisted nothing happened, because no one was charged with the crime of "collusion" (hint - it ain't a crime).

That's right up there with no investigation is needed if that wasn't a conviction.

At least you seem to better understand the analogy I used. So, there's that.

I'm not surprised that the word "insurrection" does not in the definition of "seditious conspiracy".

Nowhere have I said nothing happened, what I said is that an insurrection did not happen. Just like, nowhere have I said that "no investigation is needed if there wasn't a conviction".

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

I'm not surprised that the word "insurrection" does not in the definition of "seditious conspiracy".

Nowhere have I said nothing happened, what I said is that an insurrection did not happen. Just like, nowhere have I said that "no investigation is needed if there wasn't a conviction".

Yes, something Congress has determined to be twice as bad as an insurrection based on the applicable penalties, happened.

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Walk waaaay the fuck out on that limb of abstraction, bullshitters. It’s not like the investigators are digging into this…. Take a good bullshitter stand on that limb.

 

[Dog 2.0]

This is just silly. This is why no one takes you seriously.

Really, if you have a better way to determine if an event constitutes an insurrection than a conviction for insurrection, let's hear it.

 

[phillysailor]

18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection​

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(L), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

The Willard Hotel “War Room” in the lead up to Jan 6 sounds like this, huh? That’d be a nice capstone for Steve Bannon, John Eastman and Roger Stone’s careers, huh?

Unlike some mangy curs, I’d be satisfied if it just led to Seditious Conspiracy charges. Enough of the right wing anti-American groups (OKs and PBs) have testified under oath and ratted out their comrades that we should expect charges at this level of the conspiracy next.

 

[Bus Driver]

Really, if you have a better way to determine if an event constitutes an insurrection than a conviction for insurrection, let's hear it.

As long as no one is convicted of "insurrection", you are going to claim some sort of win.

The first person, of what may be many people, has been convicted of conspiring to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States.

You can pretend it was not that big a deal, because "it wasn't an insurrection" all you want. Books will be written about this. It will be taught. It will be long remembered for what it was - a low point in the history of a country you pretend to love.

 

[Bus Driver]

18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection​

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(L), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

The Willard Hotel “War Room” in the lead up to Jan 6 sounds like this, huh? That’d be a nice capstone for Steve Bannon, John Eastman and Roger Stone’s careers, huh?

Unlike some mangy curs, I’d be satisfied if it just led to Seditious Conspiracy charges. Enough of the right wing anti-American groups (OKs and PBs) have testified under oath and ratted out their comrades that we should expect charges at this level of the conspiracy next.

If anyone gets charged and convicted of "Rebellion or insurrection", look for Dog Deux to change the subject and attempt to downplay it.

 

[Dog 2.0]

If anyone gets charged and convicted of "Rebellion or insurrection", look for Dog Deux to change the subject and attempt to downplay it.

Not at all, my view is that at that point we will have an insurrection, but I don't think we can have an insurrection without an insurrectionist.

BTW ... Do you remember who said this:
"Only a complete moron would presume to know what another poster thinks “