Melbourne Big Boat Fleet

[TUBBY]

Does anyone outside Port Phillip use AMS.

Not just the CYC that uses ORC,  up this way it seems pretty common.  While I admit to being NSW centric I haven't even seen any club offer AMS for a regatta or pointscore.

 

[Flatbag]

Congratulations to Ichi Ban and Khalesi for their clean sweeps in ORCi divisions 1 & 2

http://www.topyacht.net.au/results/rmys/2018/ayc/mono/SGrp2.htm

Also a big shout out to Team Hollywood for their utterly unexpected victory in the Lada vs Lamborghini division.

Victory is sweet. 

Have to say there was much improved photos and video coverage of this (non) event after the debacle of the first day.

 

[PITA]

Does anyone outside Port Phillip use AMS.

Not just the CYC that uses ORC,  up this way it seems pretty common.  While I admit to being NSW centric I haven't even seen any club offer AMS for a regatta or pointscore.

Lincoln (aka 'The centre of the Universe'!) offers it for the race and the Regatta.

Our Club in Adelaide has very few IRC entrants.  I confess my ignorance, but the main grumble seems to be cost(?).  So the Club introduced a half-arsed priced 'local' version that doesn't count anywhere else.  The cynics say it was supposed to entice other entrants so that a big boat owner here could genuinely say he raced against other boats in order to win the IRC bling.  Nobody much seems to have taken up the generous offer. 

 

[Bucket Mouth]

So cos you stuffed it up and hit the mark @Couta you thing you deserve redress

https://www.topyacht.com.au/protests/protests_prnt.php?ev=107.107.107.1.966

 

[Flatbag]

So cos you stuffed it up and hit the mark @Couta you thing you deserve redress

https://www.topyacht.com.au/protests/protests_prnt.php?ev=107.107.107.1.966

There has been a not infrequent history of RGYC laying marks with too much scope at FoS over the years. Waters there are reasonably shallow but with quite a bit of tidal flow so the scope can extend out a long way between the marks and the anchors setting a trap for the unwary. The comment from the Jury that the mark was laid "Correctly"  might be considered 'arse -covering' at best. In shallower waters with tidal flow the scope should be set with a mid-weight to hold the line vertically beneath the mark at a reasonable depth to prevent what has been happening over many years. 

I can remember one of the Inglis 47s hairing off on a reach after hooking the weather mark in an Advertiser Trophy race in about 25 kts many years ago with the whole fleet chasing her, trying to get to the fast moving mark. 

 

[Swanno]

So cos you stuffed it up and hit the mark @Couta you thing you deserve redress

https://www.topyacht.com.au/protests/protests_prnt.php?ev=107.107.107.1.966

FACTS
1. The Wilson Spit Laid Mark was laid in the position described in the Sailing Instructions, the mark was laid correctly.
2. VOODOO's keel hooked onto the ground tackle causing the mark to come in contact with her.
3. VOODOO freed the ground tackle from the keel and relaid the mark
4. VOODOO carried out a one turn penalty.
5. If VOODOO,s performance after the incident was comparable to its performance prior to the incident it would be reasonably expected to have overtaken the boats in its vicinity at the time of the incident, however she lost time on those boats

CONCLUSIONS
VOODOO's finishing position has not made significantly worse by an improper action or omission by the Race Committee.

Gotta be more to the story?

 

[Couta]

OK...so we hook up the mark (and yes we gave it a wide berth)...we pick up the mark and note that there is no weight on the (very long) line (there is a clip where the weight chain should go but its clipped onto...more line) we drop the mark and do our turn. We take it to the room...and they find in our favour and give us 6 minutes (it took us ~8-10mins to execute our work!!)....all good...until the results are re-calculated and the time allowance gives us line honours. The committee is reconvened and the earlier decision overturned with the statement above). Incidentally there' were rumours that the line weights were often not used cos it's harder work for the mark laying crews to retrieve the marks!!

The other issue (the reason that the TP's got ahead...because even after the mark issue they were close behind)....was that the course as designated in the SI's...took the fleet from the laid mark to the channel marker further up the channel. Unfortunately those designing the course didn't allow for Voodoos draft...so while the TPs reached away directly to the next mark, Voodoo were forced to sail upwind to the channel for deeper water...and the TP's got in front....Hmm.(note item 5 in the Facts Found statement!!)

Day 2 morning race....long story short....leading the fleet to the finish...Voodoo discovers that the finish line has been laid on the "Spoil Ground", so because of draft issues, the boat can't get to it!! Back to the Room...this time they give Voodoo a nominal finish time.

Bugger...but after all...it is Geelong...and we're there for the annual catch-up...

 

[Rushman]

Voodoo will not be invited back to Geelong.... Going to the room TWICE and they sailed in the cruising division!

 

[dbo]

OK...so we hook up the mark (and yes we gave it a wide berth)...we pick up the mark and note that there is no weight on the (very long) line (there is a clip where the weight chain should go but its clipped onto...more line) we drop the mark and do our turn. We take it to the room...and they find in our favour and give us 6 minutes (it took us ~8-10mins to execute our work!!)....all good...until the results are re-calculated and the time allowance gives us line honours. The committee is reconvened and the earlier decision overturned with the statement above). Incidentally there' were rumours that the line weights were often not used cos it's harder work for the mark laying crews to retrieve the marks!!

The other issue (the reason that the TP's got ahead...because even after the mark issue they were close behind)....was that the course as designated in the SI's...took the fleet from the laid mark to the channel marker further up the channel. Unfortunately those designing the course didn't allow for Voodoos draft...so while the TPs reached away directly to the next mark, Voodoo were forced to sail upwind to the channel for deeper water...and the TP's got in front....Hmm.(note item 5 in the Facts Found statement!!)

Day 2 morning race....long story short....leading the fleet to the finish...Voodoo discovers that the finish line has been laid on the "Spoil Ground", so because of draft issues, the boat can't get to it!! Back to the Room...this time they give Voodoo a nominal finish time.

Bugger...but after all...it is Geelong...and we're there for the annual catch-up...

And you seem surprised you had these issues when you bring a very deep draft boat to Geelong and race it in the inner harbour? Us cruising division boats found it somewhat funny.

 

[Gorn FRANTIC!!]

It seems not all is rosy and fantastic in the world of AMS after all.

 

[Don]

It seems not all is rosy and fantastic in the world of AMS after all.

View attachment 297268

Oh you have to be joking...surely.

The fact that an Elliot 50 footer has an AMS of 0.978 is the injustice, it should be 1.065.

One of the reasons my boat is for sale is I'm sick and tired of trying to compete with large boats with stupidly low ratings i.e. yours and B45's as examples. But then you think it is perfectly OK for an RP36 to have and AMS of 1.037 I suppose.

 

[Flatbag]

Voodoo will not be invited back to Geelong.... Going to the room TWICE and they sailed in the cruising division!

Not aware that Festival of Sails is an Invitation event?

I have absolutely no connection with Voodoo or anyone on the boat that I am aware of but as I see it, Voodoo entered in good faith and paid their money to be there like everybody else. Surely they are entitled to a reasonable expectation that the organisers, who accepted their entry AND their entry fee, will run a course that the yacht they accepted as an entry is capable of sailing. They have raced 100fters down there in the past and set courses to accommodate them, why not this time?

On that basis, it is perfectly reasonable for them to protest / seek redress on both counts. I agree it seems odd that they chose to sail in the AMS Cruising Division but that's their choice. Not everybody goes there to beat themselves up in the serious racing Divs, look at the numbers FFS! 

 

[Don]

Excellent points FB, I agree.

However, if you choose to race in Cruising AMS division, don't go motoring through another divisions (IRC/AMS rating) course and starting area during pre-start when you have no business being there.

 

[Couta]

Did anyone get the story on the serious collision pre-start at the AMS Cruising start on Sunday am? It was a complete shitfight that we stayed well out of and let it clear before we headed up the course. Someone said you could see the internal "furniture" of the boat that was hit....very serious situation where lives were at risk.

 

[Don]

Congratulations to Secret Mens Business for the Geelong series win.

Watching the TP52's line up was very entertaining, but jeez you guys showed some guts in the last race. The third leg of the final race must have felt like being repeatedly kicked in the nuts.  But you proved the old adage, never give up, you just never know what can happen next.

 

[Don]

Shit, for a moment I thought you meant the Seaquest RP36's... Now I see you meant Smooth Criminal

It does sound strange for an AMS rating to be changed so greatly without offering some sort of explanation and a revised certificate. I would presume that they were plugging loop holes in the rating system that the Elliott slips through.  

An 8.7% loophole, that's more like a canyon. Sounds like the 2 sail rating was applied to the full rating. Be interesting in learning more, I might request a copy of the new certificate for late night reading. 

 

[Flatbag]

It seems not all is rosy and fantastic in the world of AMS after all.

View attachment 297268

Big call about the effect of a rating change on estimated value. If you want to play in the measured ratings game then that's always a risk, not matter the measurement system. IOR used to wipe out whole fleets on an annual basis, the AMS dudes are amateurs in that respect.

As for holding her value, lets just say that Stampede is not a boat that crops up much in conversations about sailing excellence.

 

[judge]

Did anyone get the story on the serious collision pre-start at the AMS Cruising start on Sunday am? It was a complete shitfight that we stayed well out of and let it clear before we headed up the course. Someone said you could see the internal "furniture" of the boat that was hit....very serious situation where lives were at risk.

Apart from the brilliant idea of putting the multihull start line 100 meters to leeward of the Mono fleet line AND THEN starting the multi's 5 minutes BEFORE the mono's...I wasn't aware of any significant problems on the line, certainly no banging and crashing.  Any names???

 

[Dark Cloud]

It definitely requires some sort of explanation. If it is due to changes in the secret algorithm, they wont want to offer specifics, but something better than silence should be offered.   

I understand an error was found on their original cert last year, thus the correction. And said owner was told something to this effect

 

[Don]

I understand an error was found on their original cert last year, thus the correction. And said owner was told something to this effect

So, I wonder if the owner saw the incorrect rating certificate and decided to keep his mouth shut? If he did.....hmmm. Given how many times he had appeared in the protest room in the past...well.

Come to think about it, that's the second AMS rating in two weeks, that appears dodgy...