Melges 15

[email protected]

Super Anarchist
2,255
190
USA
Cmon man, If you think the boats in these two pictures dont compare at all to each other, given the context of boats within this sport that range from a $200 opti on craigslist to a $20 mil speed machine, its you that cannot be helped!

20210108-EMK-M15WS1-9.jpeg

vx_one-design_photo.jpeg

 
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Foredeck Shuffle

More of a Stoic Cynic, Anarchy Sounds Exhausting
The M15 fits a low end sportboat like dinghy niche and my expectation is that it will dominate it.  The low tech design and materials will keep the cost down for construction and long term maintenance.  Inexpensive and uncomplex boats do well in the U.S. dinghy market as most people with interests in dinghy racing are that segment of the market.

You see a challenger for a VX/One, guessing you never seen one, definitely never sailed on one.  I see a great replacement for the Club 420.  I do not mean that as a disparagement of the M15, high school and college sailing would benefit from the M15 taking over.  It would inject some excitement into a dying sport.










































CLASS / DETAILS


New Price


Boat Type


USSA NAPY


RYA PN


PHRF


Sails: M/J/S


Spin


UW SA m^2


DW SA m^2


UW SA/D
(1 Crew)


DW SA/D
(1 Crew)


Avg SA/D
(1 Crew)


D/L
(1 Crew)


UW SA/D
(Full Crew)


DW SA/D
(Full Crew)


Avg  SA/D
(Full Crew)


D/L (Full Crew)


Max Hull Speed


Jib m^2


Main m^2


Spin m^2


LWL  m


LOA m


Beam m


Weight Kg


Crew


Avg Crew Kg


Crew Kg
(Full Crew)


Draft m


Mast m


Trapeze


Ballast


Ballast Kg


Roll Furl Jib


Foil or Kt


Hull Material


Mast Material


Upwind Sail
Material


Builder Sail


Design Year


Sail Well 3kts


Powered 6kts


One Design


Vendor /
Class /
Forum
Website




VX/One


34,900


Sportboat


77.0


924


99.0


M/J/S


A


20.0


46.0


45.5


104.7


75.1


41.8


38.2


88.0


63.1


54.3


5.86


3.99


15.98


26.01


5.7


5.8


2.2


204


2


87


174


1.3


 


N


Y


65


Y


N


CF/FG/Fm


CF


Any


N


2016


Y


Y


Y


[SIZE=9pt]http://vxone.org/[/SIZE]




Melges 15


13,995


Dinghy


 


 


 


M/J/S


A


12.4


26.9


39.4


85.4


62.4


51.6


30.1


65.4


47.8


77.0


5.10


3.70


8.70


14.50


4.3


4.6


1.7


90


2


87


174


0.8


 


N


N


 


N


N


FG


Alum


Dacron


N


2020


 


 


Y


[SIZE=9pt]https://melges.com/melges-15/[/SIZE]





 
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Fretz

Anarchist
585
108
Since images do say much, how about an apples to apples image?

202103268-M15Midwinters-EMK-31.jpg


There is not a single person sailing M15's who wouldn't jump at the chance to sail a VX1.  That's what is great about sailing.  You can always go to a different regatta and try a different boat.  The only limitation as a boat owner is your checkbook.  If a VX1 fleet has a M15 fleet nearby your eligible crew list is growing.  When that M15 sailor starts making real money they are going to to move along to something more challenging.    

The 420 will continue to be the dominate Jr boat.  If a kid isn't interested in sailing 420's where do they go next?   Lasers? Crewing for some old guy?  We have worked really hard in NJ to position the M15 so that it doesn't hurt existing classes.  Were attracting sailors who don't currently own a boat at all.  I hope that after several years of having fun they get a VX1 or an E or a J70 or an M24.  Don't get me started on all the cool dingys/skiffs that no one sails in the states. 

We needed a bridge to get the kids into adult sailing.  Luck would have it that the adults are having as much fun as the kids.  

 

RobbieB

Super Anarchist
3,160
1,655
Charleston, SC
Incorrect again.  The cost is £28,329.17 (ex VAT), converts to $34,900USD.

And if you think they compare to each other I cannot help you.
I'm talking about the true, sail away price clearly listed at 33,995 pounds on the link you sent.  Which converts to the $40k+ US price, (not sure if that includes shipping?).  Ex VAT price is not that.  So, you are correct.  They do NOT compare.  I'm only interested in the pricing that actually gets me on the water.   

 

RobbieB

Super Anarchist
3,160
1,655
Charleston, SC
Incorrect again.  The cost is £28,329.17 (ex VAT), converts to $34,900USD.

And if you think they compare to each other I cannot help you.
Ok.  I get the compare comment now.  The M15 is the most viable, (from a budget standpoint) entry into the sport boat market for a crew of 2 here in the US.  I think it's a great gateway boat to the VX and a great option for those who don't have the cash but want to play in double handed asym competitive boats, (a lot of VX's sail 3 up).  I agree with Fretz.  Melges is doing a fantastic job of marketing these and getting them on the water.  They do not take away from the VX fleet potential.   They are very similar in their set ups with the single line launch/retrieve system for the chute, but the hull shape is much more forgiving than the VX.  I imagine the groove DW on the Melges is a bit more wide than on the VX.  I like both boats.

 


There is not a single person sailing M15's who wouldn't jump at the chance to sail a VX1.  That's what is great about sailing.  You can always go to a different regatta and try a different boat.  The only limitation as a boat owner is your checkbook.  If a VX1 fleet has a M15 fleet nearby your eligible crew list is growing.  When that M15 sailor starts making real money they are going to to move along to something more challenging.    

The 420 will continue to be the dominate Jr boat.  If a kid isn't interested in sailing 420's where do they go next?   Lasers? Crewing for some old guy?  We have worked really hard in NJ to position the M15 so that it doesn't hurt existing classes.  Were attracting sailors who don't currently own a boat at all.  I hope that after several years of having fun they get a VX1 or an E or a J70 or an M24.  Don't get me started on all the cool dinghies/skiffs that no one sails in the states. 

We needed a bridge to get the kids into adult sailing.  Luck would have it that the adults are having as much fun as the kids.  
There is active Skiff Sailing in the States, just do your research. Mainly West Coast and Hawaii. 29er, 49er, International 14, and 18 Footer.

 

Foredeck Shuffle

More of a Stoic Cynic, Anarchy Sounds Exhausting
I'm talking about the true, sail away price clearly listed at 33,995 pounds on the link you sent.  Which converts to the $40k+ US price, (not sure if that includes shipping?).  Ex VAT price is not that.  So, you are correct.  They do NOT compare.  I'm only interested in the pricing that actually gets me on the water.   
You really cannot read.

VX One Complete, sail away package(VX0012)


Includes :

  • Complete, fully fitted hull
  • Carbon Mast (Inc wires & halyards)
  • Carbon Boom & Vang
  • Keel
  • Fixed rudder w/carbon tiller & extension
  • North Sails main & jib
  • Intensity Spinnaker
  • Foil Bag
  • Top Cover
  • Under Cover
  • Launching trolley
  • Combination road trailer w/lighting board


Price: £33,995

            £28,329.17 (ex VAT)

 

RobbieB

Super Anarchist
3,160
1,655
Charleston, SC
You really cannot read.
Ex VAT.  So what are the $5,500 of Value Added Taxes that are removed?  And What is shipping to the US?  Considering the used  VX market has jumped into the high $20k range I have a hard time believing a new sail away FOB delivered price to the US is under $30k.  A new set of North sails alone is around $5k.

Have you recently purchased an new Ovi VX delivered to the US.  Has anyone on this thread?  I'd be interested to hear what they paid.   

 

Foredeck Shuffle

More of a Stoic Cynic, Anarchy Sounds Exhausting
Shipments wait for containers to reduce the costs, I don't know what it costs right now, containers in the last 5 years have ranged from $2K to $12K (mid pandemic).

I think you'll find it can vary a lot.  I usually over buy so for me I'd have a trailer, dolly, top/bottom cover, and other extra bits.  That would happen with the M15 too and some of those costs will not be significantly different so it costs a lot.

The costs of an M15 are lower and always will be.  The boats are not very similar so comparing them is pointless.  I don't have a use for one but if my kid grows up sailing and asks for one, I'll probably buy one.  I will not let him languish in a C420 if he even bats an eye at something faster.

 
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Fretz

Anarchist
585
108
I haven't seen anyone do it.  I'm hearing a good competitive weight range is sub - 300lbs'ish.  
to my knowledge no one is racing single handed but you can sail it for fun.    if its light you can sail with the jib and its really fun.  When its windy its not easy to sail with main only as the jib helps balance the boat.  the Chute is challenging single handed.  

for weight 325-350 is probably average.  kids are sailing lighter for sure.  for club racing there are people at 400 having fun and going fast who will never travel.

 

Fretz

Anarchist
585
108
There is active Skiff Sailing in the States, just do your research. Mainly West Coast and Hawaii. 29er, 49er, International 14, and 18 Footer.
you guys are lucky to have those classes.  In New Jersey the M15 is cutting edge;-)  there was a big push for the flying scot when we were looking at double handed boats 3 years ago.  the kids who aspire to do 29er sailing are traveling a lot. 

At then end of the day all I care about is more boats racing locally.  at my club, in our region and our state.  When that happens Ill have a bigger pool of victims to convince that we should do something "cooler".  

 

[email protected]

Super Anarchist
2,255
190
USA
Duuude! Just a minor difference tho... brah.

One doesn't and one does have lead attached...

Q some Sesame Street tunes:
One of these things just doesn't belong here

One of these things is just not the same

....
nobodys saying theyre the same.  and yeah, no shit with double the sail area, yes we're all aware that the vx one has lead.

every. single. person. who i've discussed purchasing a M15 with has brought up the vx when discussing the relative pro's and cons of the M15... yes dinghy vs small leaded sport boat... but clearly appeal to the same general prospective customer base, that's all.

 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,258
9,609
Eastern NC
The "real skiff" sailors scoff at the RS400 but my wife and I sailed one, by invitation, when we were vacationing in England some years ago. I liked it... the pole system seemed a little finicky and over-complicated but it works.

I was an "early adopter" of the Johnson 18 scow/skiff back in the 1990s, that boat had some great features but also some bad ones. Much much too heavy. Actually too stable, behaved like a catamaran in capsizes and dull in light air due to the wide hull w/ lots of wetted surface. Very limited stowage. It was a heavy 18 footer that was too small inside for 3. The stylish rounded topsides acquired scrapes and scars no matter how careful you were with it (we treated ours like a Faberge egg) and offered no grip while on the beach. The Johnson 18 was a very cool-looking, very ergonomic 2-person hiker though.

In fact, I'd say the only boat I've sailed that I liked more than the Johnson 18 was the VX-1 which I've only sailed once and never raced. Comfy, ergonomic, very strong for it's weight (there are no "no step" areas on the deck), simply rigged yet very controllable, easy to sail, comfy to hike... a paragon of every virtue in sailboat except that it's expensive. The only thing I didn't like about it was the baby stays, and the fact that you really could never sail it off a beach.

Now the Melges 15... apologies for mentioning all these other boats, but the idea is to compare. By price, the M15 costs less than either the RS400 of the Johnson 18. I've never sailed one, so will not comment there. They look like a very sensible and effective update to the 2-person "family" racing dinghy, although still not up with our Brit and Ozzy and Kiwi cousins standards. The only thing I don't like about it is that it's not self-bailing. WTF?

- DSK

 

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