Melges 20 at Charleston Race week…

EYESAILOR

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The Melges 20 was sold to Melges' customer list as smaller boat with easier logistics. This is an owner group used to professional crews and Melges level of service and events. It had not been done on boats this small before but it was Melges and it kinda worked. For as little as $25,000 you could compete in a weekend regatta in Miami against the same standard of competition as you got in the top M24 teams and M32 teams. That sure beat the six figure sums you could spend getting a Melges 32 on the line in Sardinia.

You only needed 2 or 3 paid guys. So that is only 2 or 3 flight tickets (so you didn't need to fly them private) and 2 or 3 hotel rooms. Dinner and nightclubs were cheaper. Yard logistics were cheaper. It was a good deal.

The low budget programs could go and race J70s. The M 20 was where you got the hot professional competition. Anyone who thought this was an amateur class never opened yachtscoring.

If they expect to pivot the class on a dime and suddenly create a new demographic of amateur Melges 20 owners then it will take some heroic expectations. You need an almost 100% turnover in owners (none of them want to sail with less than cutting edge experienced crew and nor do they have time in their work lives to run their own logistics). Then you need a very energetic volunteer class association. It took years and a lot of effort for the Melges 24 to make that shift. They were eventually successful but they got a big helping hand from the launch of the M20.

The other problem the M20 faces is that , to the sport boat cognoscenti, it is under-powered.
How do you persuade a keen , competitive amateur owner to buy a Melges 20 when the Melges 24 already offers an amateur class, with a powered up boat and a cult like following. I have met many Melges 24 owners and sailors who are passionate about the boat. I have never met a Melges 20 owner who is equally deeply in love with their boat. It was popular because it was pro and the competition was good. It was never an incredible boat to sail,it was a good program.

In the meantime Melges are selling M15s as fast as the grocery store sells cereal bars. Dont cry for me Argentina.
 

EYESAILOR

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On top of that a good number of owners were Russian....The Melges 20 Class continued to allow Russian owners to compete as recently as December...but it is getting harder with Slava Ukraine bow stickers showing up on the other classes.
 

BrightAyes

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The Melges 20 was sold to Melges' customer list as smaller boat with easier logistics. This is an owner group used to professional crews and Melges level of service and events. It had not been done on boats this small before but it was Melges and it kinda worked. For as little as $25,000 you could compete in a weekend regatta in Miami against the same standard of competition as you got in the top M24 teams and M32 teams. That sure beat the six figure sums you could spend getting a Melges 32 on the line in Sardinia.

You only needed 2 or 3 paid guys. So that is only 2 or 3 flight tickets (so you didn't need to fly them private) and 2 or 3 hotel rooms. Dinner and nightclubs were cheaper. Yard logistics were cheaper. It was a good deal.

The low budget programs could go and race J70s. The M 20 was where you got the hot professional competition. Anyone who thought this was an amateur class never opened yachtscoring.

If they expect to pivot the class on a dime and suddenly create a new demographic of amateur Melges 20 owners then it will take some heroic expectations. You need an almost 100% turnover in owners (none of them want to sail with less than cutting edge experienced crew and nor do they have time in their work lives to run their own logistics). Then you need a very energetic volunteer class association. It took years and a lot of effort for the Melges 24 to make that shift. They were eventually successful but they got a big helping hand from the launch of the M20.

The other problem the M20 faces is that , to the sport boat cognoscenti, it is under-powered.
How do you persuade a keen , competitive amateur owner to buy a Melges 20 when the Melges 24 already offers an amateur class, with a powered up boat and a cult like following. I have met many Melges 24 owners and sailors who are passionate about the boat. I have never met a Melges 20 owner who is equally deeply in love with their boat. It was popular because it was pro and the competition was good. It was never an incredible boat to sail,it was a good program.

In the meantime Melges are selling M15s as fast as the grocery store sells cereal bars. Dont cry for me Argentina.
An honest history lesson. I always figured the M20 were amusement item for M32 crews to keep tip-top shape with between 1st class international flights to their next M32 event.
 

WCB

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An honest history lesson. I always figured the M20 were amusement item for M32 crews to keep tip-top shape with between 1st class international flights to their next M32 event.
Actually, I think your assessment is more correct. Last year I mentioned to the class that we needed more events up North like Charleston and Newport. The response that I got was that most of the owners were too busy with their Melges 24s, IC37s and Melges 32s and didn't want the Melges 20 events to happen.

Also, it's been a while but I did the SA/Disp calculation a while back and while that doesn't mean everything, the Melges 24 and 20 were almost exactly the same so I would have a hard time saying that the 24 is way more powered up.
 

BrightAyes

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First time I ever saw a M20, one look at that complicated mast section, with intermediates and pretensioned like a bow and I thought, why? Too complex, too expensive for what? The VXOne is everything the M20 isn't: powered up, user-friendly, inexpensive and most importantly, fun Corinthian fleet. Hell, they're so normal, even I've sailed with the fleet president years back. Can't say I'd ever meet or sail with a M20 owner (WCB excepted, of course).
 
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EYESAILOR

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An honest history lesson. I always figured the M20 were amusement item for M32 crews to keep tip-top shape with between 1st class international flights to their next M32 event.
If you are flying commercial, then you are with the wrong team.
 

EYESAILOR

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First time I ever saw a M20, one look at that complicated mast section, with intermediates and pretensioned like a bow and I thought, why? Too complex, too expensive for what? The VXOne is everything the M20 isn't: powered up, user-friendly, inexpensive and most importantly, fun Corinthian fleet. Hell, they're so normal, even I've sailed with the fleet president years back. Can't say I'd ever meet or sail with a M20 owner (WCB excepted, of course).
Totally different boats with a totally different audience.

Compared to the VX One, my local Laser fleet is powered up, user-friendly, inexpensive , fun and Corinthian. Which does not make the Laser a better boat than the VX One.
 

makinghp

New member
Great discussion on the class. I recently purchased a 20 and looking forward to getting it wet soon. I have raced in some different one design classes and watched a few others. One of the keys looks like it has to do with how newbies are treated. Classes that welcome them and go out of their way to help them get up to speed seem to grow, classes were the old guard looks at them as fresh meat seem to dry up. Also need to look at the bucks. Used 20’s have become very reasonable to purchase but if The cost to campaign stays high it will restrict the amateurs. Looking forward to seeing where it all goes. Meanwhile the boat will be located in Detroit in the summer and North Carolina in the winter. If there are other 20’s in the regions that want to start sailing some please let me know.
 
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WCB

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Great discussion on the class. I recently purchased a 20 and looking forward to getting it wet soon. I have raced in some different one design classes and watched a few others. One of the keys looks like it has to do with how newbies are treated. Classes that welcome them and go out of their way to help them get up to speed seem to grow, classes were the old guard looks at them as fresh meat seem to dry up. Also need to look at the bucks. Used 20’s have become very reasonable to purchase but if The cost to campaign stays high it will restrict the amateurs. Looking forward to seeing where it all goes. Meanwhile the boat will be located in Detroit in the summer and North Carolina in the winter. If there are other 20’s in the regions that want to start sailing some please let me know.
What would it take to get you to Miami for the last two or three events? I'm hemming and hawing about going to Miami for the Feb event or I'm willing to offer it at the promotional charter rate of $1k if somebody wants to try out the class with their team.
 

jackolantern

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What would it take to get you to Miami for the last two or three events? I'm hemming and hawing about going to Miami for the Feb event or I'm willing to offer it at the promotional charter rate of $1k if somebody wants to try out the class with their team.
Maybe start with asking why existing teams need two pros onboard a 20 foot sprit boat with furling jib and an outboard motor just to beat him as an amateur? They should stop pointing their hired guns (including Kieran) at anyone who dares to join the class. Heaven forbid they risk LOSING a race by playing on a more even field
 

WCB

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Maybe start with asking why existing teams need two pros onboard a 20 foot sprit boat with furling jib and an outboard motor just to beat him as an amateur? They should stop pointing their hired guns (including Kieran) at anyone who dares to join the class. Heaven forbid they risk LOSING a race by playing on a more even field
Isn't that the fun of it though? Taking over the class with non-pro teams and beating them anyways? That's what brought a smile to my face in the Melges 24. Finishing a race and looking back at the pro teams were able to beat that race and in the overall. We can't stop people who have the money from spending their money how they want but we can change the make up of the field so that it's maybe not so attractive to hire pros anymore.
 

jackolantern

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Isn't that the fun of it though? Taking over the class with non-pro teams and beating them anyways? That's what brought a smile to my face in the Melges 24. Finishing a race and looking back at the pro teams were able to beat that race and in the overall. We can't stop people who have the money from spending their money how they want but we can change the make up of the field so that it's maybe not so attractive to hire pros anymore.
Based on the trends in corinthian entry #s in the Melges 20 fleet over the last 5 years I would say that people are showing you how "fun" it is to only beat the pros every now and then by voting with their feet.

I would buy and race a Melges 20 if I was assured I could sail with friends who have M-F day jobs in New York without getting constantly dunked on by guys paying the Melges Mafia to practice for three days before a two day regatta. This is the same problem that has cropped up in the Etchells fleet in Miami where people who hired pros used to say "it's great for amateurs to mix it up with the pros" but then the pros started to outnumber the amateurs and suddenly the paycheck arms race kicked in and you saw fleet numbers drop by 50% and all the corinthians stay home now.
 
This is a pretty interesting discussion; M20 / M24 and Charleston. Having sailed all of the boats since close to inceptions and the locations mentioned I will give a few comments.

M20. Fun little boat is that extremely tweaky with the rig to make it go. It started out as Champaign and Caviar catering to higher end owners. That was their plan, it worked and frankly it was fun to be able to do those things with a fraction of a budget of a big boat team. But I think that it got too big of an arms race too quickly and people began to find other things to do. The M24 went through the exact same problem, but the difference was there were a lot more M24 vs M20 when people bailed. Personally I think the M20 will have a hard time recovering; I certainly want it to and have looked at sailing some events but they just dont fit into the schedule.

Both the M20 and M24 will have growing pains moving forward since there are currently no new masts to be bought or boats being built. So until then things will be tenuous.

In regards to Charleston and it being one sided; there are times you certainly dont go left or right but I look at it more like chutes and ladders. You need to think and look up and have boat positioning; raw speed is great, but will only get you so far. But Biscayne Bay can certainly and is many times one sided, frankly one could argue in certain directions even more so.

But regardless of that I think its more on being with friends in fun areas and less on the sailing side, at least that is my mentality as I get older.

Hopefully in the next year or two the small keel boats will see a resurgence in numbers again.

Travis
Lucky Dog
M24 858
 
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jackolantern

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First day of racing in the books. Top 3 teams running the table against the Corinthian teams. Congratulations to Gamecock for paying two world champion professionals to sail a 20 foot Sprit boat with a furling jib in order to beat those pesky Corinthian sailors.
 

BrightAyes

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First day of racing in the books. Top 3 teams running the table against the Corinthian teams. Congratulations to Gamecock for paying two world champion professionals to sail a 20 foot Sprit boat with a furling jib in order to beat those pesky Corinthian sailors.
Well looking at the crew rosters, it'll be a cold day in hell before I charter one as an aging Corinthian hack with some strangers as crew...
 

WCB

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Well looking at the crew rosters, it'll be a cold day in hell before I charter one as an aging Corinthian hack with some strangers as crew...
Hmmm, I was trying to sail with friends but they bailed so now I'm heading to Miami to sail with strangers. Oh well... Luckily I know some of the guys on the other boats so the apres should be fun.
 

makinghp

New member
So here’s the big question. I believe some folks did charter a few boats? Did they bring pros or not? How did they do? But most importantly did they have fun and plan on chartering again or buying a boat. Sorry, thats actually a bunch of questions.
 


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