Melges 24 doing Port Huron Mac WHAT ARE THEY THINKING

FlyTheCode

FlyTheCode

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Toledo, OH
Just curious, what about the Melges 24 makes it less safe then other boats?

I'm sure that the 4 M24s currently registered haven't signed up with the expectation that they are placing their crew in a riskier situation compared to other boats in the race.

Compared to other boats, the Melges(s) ussually are well maintained, well crewed, and carrying the appropriate safety gear because of the rigerous demands of one deaign racing. I don't see why people jump at a certain type of boat being "unsafe" when there could be many other "safe" designes which are more likely to be involved in dangerous situation due to lack of crew training, equipment failures, and other issues that have nothing to do with boat design.

How many people in mobile were hurt as a result of being on a Melges 24? Given the choice I'd much rather be out in those conditions on a well maintained M24 with good sailors then on a poorly maintained 30ft cruiser with a less experienced crew, a poor maintence history, and an assortment of outdated gear.

 
kent_island_sailor

kent_island_sailor

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Kent Island!
The 30 foot cruiser is not going to capsize. The M-24 most certainly could, which we just saw.

FlyTheCode said:
Just curious, what about the Melges 24 makes it less safe then other boats?

I'm sure that the 4 M24s currently registered haven't signed up with the expectation that they are placing their crew in a riskier situation compared to other boats in the race.

Compared to other boats, the Melges(s) ussually are well maintained, well crewed, and carrying the appropriate safety gear because of the rigerous demands of one deaign racing. I don't see why people jump at a certain type of boat being "unsafe" when there could be many other "safe" designes which are more likely to be involved in dangerous situation due to lack of crew training, equipment failures, and other issues that have nothing to do with boat design.

How many people in mobile were hurt as a result of being on a Melges 24? Given the choice I'd much rather be out in those conditions on a well maintained M24 with good sailors then on a poorly maintained 30ft cruiser with a less experienced crew, a poor maintence history, and an assortment of outdated gear.
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SCANAS

SCANAS

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People sail beach cats across oceans & I'm sure Slocum would have swapped Spray for an M24 any day of the week. Go for it & post the Vid!!!!!

 
some dude

some dude

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J29Guy said:
Hey Code- there are several standards to suggest that a Melges 24 is not suitable for this race. The M-24 stability index is 98.3 and the limit of positive stability is 106 degrees. Those supposedly ill prepared 30 footers have much better numbers than that and are inherently safer in a storm. US Sailing Coastal race category requires a 103 SI number. They came up with that number for a reason. No one was hurt in Mobile because the boats mast stuck in the mud and prevented a full turtle and possible sinking. The M-24 did not have its sails up and it flipped twice according to the crew.

Now fast forward to the BYC Mac. Water is a lot colder than the 75 degrees of Mobile Bay. Water depths tend to be a lot deeper than 40 feet so not likely a mast stopping a turtle. Not much fun thrashing around in 50 degree water in the middle of the night. You are racing 1-2 nights which heightens the danger. Once you cross Saginaw Bay bailout points are few. As one of the fastest boats on the shore course they are liable to be out in front of their fleet and not close to other boats for rescue. With the small engine on the M-24 it is not likely you will be able to motor your way out of a bad storm situation.

The real story is that the BYC Race committee sold out its safety standards to gain a few more entrants. 1. They lowered the minimum length to 24 ft from 26 ft. They are granting a waiver to allow 4 crew instead of 5 for the M-24. The M-24 does not have to have a bow pulpit, foredeck toe rails so the RC requires them to have harnesses on while on deck then in the next sentence says it is up to skipper as whether they wear them.

What I am curious to know is where are you going to secure a porta potti on a Melges 24? That's still a requirement in the Mac regs. Having a stove and sleeping accommodations for off watch crew will be interesting. For all those environmentalists stressing over rubber bands last year, how good for the environment is it to dump buckets of excrement overboard for 2 days.

These are legitimate questions. No reflection on the skill and enthusiasm of the Melges 24 crews but skill and preparation can't overcome physics in some circumstances. The chances of encountering a thunderstorm especially at night are slim but not out of the question. Do we really need another sails down boat flip situation like the Wingnuts incident to realize that it might not be a good idea to have small sportboats in a race of this nature?

http://www.lariovela.it/miniblog/certificati/ita388

http://www.yachtingaustralia.com.au/site/yachting/ayf/downloads/Technical/RRSandSR/COM%209%202010%20CMP_Cats_5_6_Stability.pdf
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Melges 24s flip all the time. They don't turn turtle, though. They have a keel, you see.

 
J

Just A Skosh

Super Anarchist
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Ballsy move, by the sailors and the race commitee. I'd do it on a 24, but only if the forecast looked good. If I was an owner looking to do it, I'd just tell my crew that I would make the call on whether to go or not 24 hours before the race started. I know forecasts aren't all that reliable sometimes, but it's all about risk management. Personally, if the forecast looked good and I knew I had a good boat and crew, I'd feel that the risk was low enough to do it.

Just putting this here:

2004nationals5.jpg


 
MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

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Had to turn down my ride for baby watch, but can't wait to hear the stories. BTW, there are a few long time Melges 24 sailors that have been trying to get this sorted out for years, it's not a case of 'selling out safety for entrants' or something - it's a case of enough Melges 24 guys replacing enough old guys on the BYC board.

 
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coyotepup

coyotepup

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J29Guy said:
[SIZE=10.5pt]The real story is that the BYC Race committee sold out its safety standards to gain a few more entrants. 1. They lowered the minimum length to 24 ft from 26 ft. They are granting a waiver to allow 4 crew instead of 5 for the M-24. The M-24 does not have to have a bow pulpit, foredeck toe rails so the RC requires them to have harnesses on while on deck then in the next sentence says it is up to skipper as whether they wear them.[/SIZE]
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"Sold out its safety standards" is an incredibly loaded and harsh accusation which you don't have enough backup for. First you make it sound as if lowering the crew limit is unsafe, which it isn't because five is just a number chosen to make sure that boats are sailed safely. Do you think it would be more safe to put an extra crew member on the Melges 24? I doubt it. Probably less safe. Do you think the Mac committee has been "selling out" all this time by letting the 70 footers sail with just five people?

Seems to me that when Wingnuts capsized and the Chicago folks introduced a stability index minimum, the vast majority of people here called it arbitrary nonsense.

Is the race marginally less safe? Sure. Are we going way the hell overboard, no pun intended, if we flip out over every relaxation of safety standards and go in guns totally blazing about selling out? Uh, yeah.

 
P

Polaris

Super Anarchist
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You're probably just upset because they are going to beat you to the island and you're still going to have to give them time.

Exposure suits would be a good idea. The weather forecasts in this day and age add another safety as well.

 
DarthSailor

DarthSailor

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[SIZE=10.5pt]Now fast forward to the BYC Mac. Water is a lot colder than the 75 degrees of Mobile Bay. Water depths tend to be a lot deeper than 40 feet so not likely a mast stopping a turtle. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]What Mobile Bay are you talking about? It might be forty feet in the ship channel but the rest or the bay is like 12-15 feet [/SIZE]

 
S

soliton

Anarchist
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DarthSailor said:
[SIZE=10.5pt]Now fast forward to the BYC Mac. Water is a lot colder than the 75 degrees of Mobile Bay. Water depths tend to be a lot deeper than 40 feet so not likely a mast stopping a turtle. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]What Mobile Bay are you talking about? It might be forty feet in the ship channel but the rest or the bay is like 12-15 feet [/SIZE]
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Read it again. He was talking about Lake Huron depths (which for the most part are much greater than 40')

 
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U

us7070

Super Anarchist
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MR.CLEAN said:
Had to turn down my ride for baby watch, but can't wait to hear the stories. BTW, there are a few long time Melges 24 sailors that have been trying to get this sorted out for years, it's not a case of 'selling out safety for entrants' or something - it's a case of enough Melges 24 guys replacing enough old guys on the BYC board.
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if they are so young and eager - why not have their own race?

why have they been sitting on their asses "for years" .., waiting for other people to organize their race?

i don't imagine anybody has been stopping them from getting in their boats and sailing wherever they want.

 
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