Melges 24 first time rigging - Mast Step

[MacaroniNBreeze]

I just got an older (sub 100's) Melges 24, am trying to get her rigged, fix her up, and have no one around to ping questions at. I'm hoping I can get some questions answered that I can't find on the webs. The biggest obstacle in my path right now is the mast step bracket and the deck it is mounted on.

I tried to step the mast with a friend and on the first attempt we dropped it, nearly stopped my heart. I could go on about what we'll do differently next time... Luckily the mast and the spreaders are fine but we bent the starboard side of the mast step bracket. The starboard side hook flared up. So, I ordered a new one from Melges and to my surprise the new mast step bottom plate is completely flat while the old one has an angle to that matches the angle on the mast base rocker.

Is it normal to have this rocker angle in the mast step? Is this an example of the deck having been crushed under years of rig tension and I need to put in some G10 board? Or are there two types of mast steps? I've searched the web and I see a couple other mast steps that look like they also have an angle to them.

If this is a result of the deck crushing, is there an easy, let's just get the mast up, see how it holds rig tension, get the boat wet, and blast around solution?

Can I just fill in the angled dip in the deck under the mast with some fiberglass & epoxy? Seems like this wouldn't hurt a later proper G10 core replacement repair. Is this a terrible idea?

Are there any tutorials of how to put in G10 board under the mast step, if this is what I need to do?

Also, a little history on the boat: It still has the old white mast (Omuhundro?). The boat was updated in 2016 with new class certifications. Tons of little updates like sets of cam cleats on both sides of the traveler, jib ratchet carbon covers, class correct shortened stanchions, etc... There are no cracks around the stanchions, push pits look great, epoxy bottom paint. Someone clearly loved on it and it doesn't look like it was raced hard.

Thanks for any and all insight!

Old Mast Step showing how much the bottom plate is angled up. Looks like the deck has the same angle to it.

New Mast Step showing completely flat base.

 

[WCB]

I'm trying to think what my mast step looks like but it's not something that I paid much attention to. My boat is also under two covers and some snow I imagine so I can't go look for you. I think that you have a little deck crush and need to repair it or fill it before putting on the new one as I've never heard of two different mast steps in the class like you do with the J22.

You can definitely get away with a temporary fix. If it were me, I think that I'd grind the gelcoat off underneath the mast step and then fill the low with small pieces of fiberglass that gradually get bigger and fill the compression zone. Top it off with some fairing compound and sand it smooth and flat. I wouldn't want to put anything too light in that area just to get sailing. Just make sure to preserve the holes so you don't have to re-locate the mast step.

Being a sub 100 boat, you should also look at the underside of the deck and the compression post to see if there are any issues like the post being driven down into the floor.

 

[WCB]

By the way, do you know the spin halyard/bowsprit mast raising trick? To save time, I'll spell it out a little.

Tie the spinnaker halylard to the tack line securely. Make sure that the knot is about 10' up from the block at the end of the bowsprit. Extend the bowsprit all the way out. Cleat off the launching line. Cleat off the spinnaker halyard. As somebody raises the mast, another person pulls the tack line through the cleat and keeps tension/helps with raising the mast. Cleat it securely once the mast is up. You can also use the jib sheet turn blocks to make pulling the tack line easier. Also make sure to watch your upper turnbuckles as you raise the mast so that they don't bend and kink at the shroud plates. If you pivot them towards the center of the boat before raising, they usually are fine but don't assume that they're okay. They kink easily if the uppers get tension and they're in the wrong place.

 

[MacaroniNBreeze]

I'm trying to think what my mast step looks like but it's not something that I paid much attention to. My boat is also under two covers and some snow I imagine so I can't go look for you. I think that you have a little deck crush and need to repair it or fill it before putting on the new one as I've never heard of two different mast steps in the class like you do with the J22.

You can definitely get away with a temporary fix. If it were me, I think that I'd grind the gelcoat off underneath the mast step and then fill the low with small pieces of fiberglass that gradually get bigger and fill the compression zone. Top it off with some fairing compound and sand it smooth and flat. I wouldn't want to put anything too light in that area just to get sailing. Just make sure to preserve the holes so you don't have to re-locate the mast step.

That's great to hear. That sounds just like what I was thinking of doing with layers of glass with West Systems epoxy.

Being a sub 100 boat, you should also look at the underside of the deck and the compression post to see if there are any issues like the post being driven down into the floor.

The underside of the deck looks good and the compression post is flush with the underside of the deck. I peaked at the base of the compression post and didn't see anything obvious but now that you mention it, I should take a closer look. I read another SA thread about issues with this and possibly the post not being perfectly centered. Then if I'm doing that, I should be aligning the mast, post, keel, & rudder... There could be a ball of wax to deal with.

 

[MacaroniNBreeze]

By the way, do you know the spin halyard/bowsprit mast raising trick? To save time, I'll spell it out a little.

Tie the spinnaker halylard to the tack line securely. Make sure that the knot is about 10' up from the block at the end of the bowsprit. Extend the bowsprit all the way out. Cleat off the launching line. Cleat off the spinnaker halyard. As somebody raises the mast, another person pulls the tack line through the cleat and keeps tension/helps with raising the mast. Cleat it securely once the mast is up. You can also use the jib sheet turn blocks to make pulling the tack line easier. Also make sure to watch your upper turnbuckles as you raise the mast so that they don't bend and kink at the shroud plates. If you pivot them towards the center of the boat before raising, they usually are fine but don't assume that they're okay. They kink easily if the uppers get tension and they're in the wrong place.

I've read about that and your description is nice.

The engineer in me wants to figure out how to get it so there is no sketchy moment and is easy enough that I don't have to stress it with new crew. I was thinking of a gin pole with a 3:1 block and tackle and some baby shrouds that I could tighten as we get around the keel... trying to figure out a fool proof way to do it. Maybe I'm over thinking it.

 

[WCB]

I've read about that and your description is nice.

The engineer in me wants to figure out how to get it so there is no sketchy moment and is easy enough that I don't have to stress it with new crew. I was thinking of a gin pole with a 3:1 block and tackle and some baby shrouds that I could tighten as we get around the keel... trying to figure out a fool proof way to do it. Maybe I'm over thinking it.

I wouldn't sweat it too much. One or two times from now, you'll be a pro. The mast is pretty light and if the path along the deck is clear, it's easy enough to walk up by yourself if the uppers are pinned on and there's somebody pulling on the tack line. It is nice to have somebody kneeling by the step to make sure it stays seated as you found out the hard way but I hadn't thought of it bending one of those tabs, I was more worried that the mast would move aft a little and kick out of the step altogether.

 

[WCB]

That's great to hear. That sounds just like what I was thinking of doing with layers of glass with West Systems epoxy.



The underside of the deck looks good and the compression post is flush with the underside of the deck. I peaked at the base of the compression post and didn't see anything obvious but now that you mention it, I should take a closer look. I read another SA thread about issues with this and possibly the post not being perfectly centered. Then if I'm doing that, I should be aligning the mast, post, keel, & rudder... There could be a ball of wax to deal with.

I would focus on the bottom of the post, looking for it crushing into the forward bunk area. If it looks solid, you're good. The boats are well made with respect to alignment and generally they're all the same with the exception of the mold changes after boat #130 give or take.

 

[MacaroniNBreeze]

I wouldn't sweat it too much. One or two times from now, you'll be a pro. The mast is pretty light and if the path along the deck is clear, it's easy enough to walk up by yourself if the uppers are pinned on and there's somebody pulling on the tack line. It is nice to have somebody kneeling by the step to make sure it stays seated as you found out the hard way but I hadn't thought of it bending one of those tabs, I was more worried that the mast would move aft a little and kick out of the step altogether.

The boat wasn't perfectly level with the port side a little low and we started the mast off on the port side of the keel. My friend didn't stay on the port side of the mast while walking it up and it got away from him. It started pull hard to port before he lost control. I didn't see anything but I suspect something got caught on the way up and no one saw it. I took my turn walking it up next and (learning from the first attempt) made it almost all the way up when I noticed that a shroud was turned at the mast so we backed it down. I was still a little shaken so we called it for the day.

I took some pictures of the bottom of the post. Judging by the dip under the post from the leading plate it looks like we have some crush. Maybe about 1/4" lower. Top of the post is flush with the deck and the deck bolts shown aren't tight because I still have the Mast Step off. What do you think is the proper course of action?

Side View

View looking aft

Top of the post meeting the deck.

 

[Bowchow]

Was this the boat from copart?

 

[ryley]

By the way, do you know the spin halyard/bowsprit mast raising trick? To save time, I'll spell it out a little.

Tie the spinnaker halylard to the tack line securely. Make sure that the knot is about 10' up from the block at the end of the bowsprit. Extend the bowsprit all the way out. Cleat off the launching line. Cleat off the spinnaker halyard. As somebody raises the mast, another person pulls the tack line through the cleat and keeps tension/helps with raising the mast. Cleat it securely once the mast is up. You can also use the jib sheet turn blocks to make pulling the tack line easier. Also make sure to watch your upper turnbuckles as you raise the mast so that they don't bend and kink at the shroud plates. If you pivot them towards the center of the boat before raising, they usually are fine but don't assume that they're okay. They kink easily if the uppers get tension and they're in the wrong place.

to add to WCB's excellent post, we used this method on the elliott, but we also added lines from the stanchions that were even with the mast step to the bottom of the spreaders. Basically tied around the mast with a loop for the jib halyard to pull it up taut. This gave lateral stability to the mast as it was being raised and it went from a heart-stopping 4 person job to a breezy 2 to raise and 3 to drop. I don't think you have stanchions in that location but you could add some fold-down padeyes for the bridle lines.

 

[WCB]

Was this the boat from copart?

That boat still has not come up for sale to my knowledge...I check from time to time

 

[WCB]

The boat wasn't perfectly level with the port side a little low and we started the mast off on the port side of the keel. My friend didn't stay on the port side of the mast while walking it up and it got away from him. It started pull hard to port before he lost control. I didn't see anything but I suspect something got caught on the way up and no one saw it. I took my turn walking it up next and (learning from the first attempt) made it almost all the way up when I noticed that a shroud was turned at the mast so we backed it down. I was still a little shaken so we called it for the day.

I took some pictures of the bottom of the post. Judging by the dip under the post from the leading plate it looks like we have some crush. Maybe about 1/4" lower. Top of the post is flush with the deck and the deck bolts shown aren't tight because I still have the Mast Step off. What do you think is the proper course of action?


View attachment 565025
Side View
View attachment 565026
View looking aft
View attachment 565027
Top of the post meeting the deck.

If I were in your position, I'd unbolt the post completely and put a straight edge across the top of the hull frame to confirm that there was any crush. If there is, same repair process as the deck, though make sure to grind away any broken old laminate. Do both at the same time, using the straight edge (8" to 12" level) to make sure that the deck and frame are rebuilt to level, and then re-insert the post and new mast step. It's a 2-3 day job and you'll likely never have to think about it again.

The underside of the deck looks just fine to me. Maybe @Irish River can chime in as they are very familiar with the Melges 24 woes.

 

[MacaroniNBreeze]

to add to WCB's excellent post, we used this method on the elliott, but we also added lines from the stanchions that were even with the mast step to the bottom of the spreaders. Basically tied around the mast with a loop for the jib halyard to pull it up taut. This gave lateral stability to the mast as it was being raised and it went from a heart-stopping 4 person job to a breezy 2 to raise and 3 to drop. I don't think you have stanchions in that location but you could add some fold-down padeyes for the bridle lines.

That's essentially what I was thinking of doing. The closest stanchions are only about an inch aft of the mast and the V at the top of the stanchion is almost at the height of the foot. I was thinking of girth hitching some dyneema around the mast above the spreaders (no where else to grab the mast) and running some straps from the loop down to the stanchions. And maybe leave the dyneema bungee'd taught strait down the mast while we're on the water, so we can get it down the same way we got it up. Then as we get more confident (competant) stepping and dropping, we can loose the baby shrouds.

Was this the boat from copart?

This boat's from the Puget Sound, now in the SF bay area. It didn't come with much but one really old set of North Kevlar sails, and little updates all over like hutchenson pads, velocitek, etc... No covers, no bags, no extras.

If I were in your position, I'd unbolt the post completely and put a straight edge across the top of the hull frame to confirm that there was any crush. If there is, same repair process as the deck, though make sure to grind away any broken old laminate. Do both at the same time, using the straight edge (8" to 12" level) to make sure that the deck and frame are rebuilt to level, and then re-insert the post and new mast step. It's a 2-3 day job and you'll likely never have to think about it again.

The underside of the deck looks just fine to me. Maybe @Irish River can chime in as they are very familiar with the Melges 24 woes.

Thanks for the directions, sounds like I have some work to do. Good thing it's winter!

 

[ryley]

The closest stanchions are only about an inch aft of the mast

That's close enough. you only need the side anchors long enough to get the shrouds in play. Just keep an eye on how they tension as you raise the mast - the more off center they are the more you may need to release some tension.

I was thinking of girth hitching some dyneema around the mast above the spreaders (no where else to grab the mast)

tie a loop in the middle of a piece of line that will reach from the spreaders to the stanchions on each side. use the jib halyard to hoist the line as high as the spreaders, then tie the legs to the stanchions, adding the tension you need to make it taut. lift (or lower) mast with tack line and spin halyard, remove legs afterward. you can use 1/4" dyneema, plenty strong, not enough stretch to worry about.

 

[MacaroniNBreeze]

That's close enough. you only need the side anchors long enough to get the shrouds in play. Just keep an eye on how they tension as you raise the mast - the more off center they are the more you may need to release some tension.


tie a loop in the middle of a piece of line that will reach from the spreaders to the stanchions on each side. use the jib halyard to hoist the line as high as the spreaders, then tie the legs to the stanchions, adding the tension you need to make it taut. lift (or lower) mast with tack line and spin halyard, remove legs afterward. you can use 1/4" dyneema, plenty strong, not enough stretch to worry about.

That sounds like a better approach to get lateral stability than what I was thinking. Although, I think the M24 doesn't have a jib halyard that can do that, it has more of a tensioner that isn't much longer than it's run inside mast. I bet I can use the main halyard by walking it around the shrouds.

 

[USA 007]

I think you're overthinking it. I've been hoisting M24's masts for almost 30 years (my first hull was #49). We've never dropped on...
Use a two person hoist - one in front of the keel, and one aft. Attache the outer shrouds to the bases, leave the inners un-attached. Tie the spin halyard to the end of the spin pole, pull snug and lay the tail over the shoulder of the rear person. Ready, set, go - the rear person lifts lifts to arm length, the person in front takes over the lift before it stops, and the rear person starts pulling on the spin halyard to assist the lift. Most newbies try to raise it too slow, and wind/gravity starts to fight them. The idea is to get the momentum going on the initial lift, and keep it going.

 

[Varan]

Like everything on the Melges 24, speed is your friend.

 

[MacaroniNBreeze]

I think you're overthinking it. I've been hoisting M24's masts for almost 30 years (my first hull was #49). We've never dropped on...
Use a two person hoist - one in front of the keel, and one aft. Attache the outer shrouds to the bases, leave the inners un-attached. Tie the spin halyard to the end of the spin pole, pull snug and lay the tail over the shoulder of the rear person. Ready, set, go - the rear person lifts lifts to arm length, the person in front takes over the lift before it stops, and the rear person starts pulling on the spin halyard to assist the lift. Most newbies try to raise it too slow, and wind/gravity starts to fight them. The idea is to get the momentum going on the initial lift, and keep it going.

There is a 100% chance that I'm overthinking it. I'm sure after a couple of hoists I won't know what my problem was.

 

[Fourplay_004]

Looks like you got your answers, but I'll offer my brief mast stepping experience/lessons learned for the Melges 24. I added a new 3" bow roller to aft side of the top of the vertical mast support on the trailer. When we step the rig, we run the winch strap through this new roller, then clip on the kite halyard. This extra bend in the hoisting line give a much better angle and reduces the sketch factor. My mast plate hooks are bent also (I suspect previous owner did something similar) so we have one person at the mast step pulling the butt forward, one person walking the rig and one person on the winch. We have done it without someone at the base as well, when there was just 2 of us. As said above, speed is key and it gets immensely more stable the higher you go (when your shrouds go taut). I remember the first couple times seeming scary but after that we didn't even think twice.

I have one of the oldest (if not the oldest) 24 in circulation and the the step plate is original from what I can tell. No rocker and the mast is happy sitting on it. The post and step haven't crushed any GRP yet, but I've read a lot about the repair because it seems inevitable. G10 is great for compressive properties, focus on the 4 corners of the plate. Use a router to clear the top laminate and core out of the area while maintaining the bottom laminate. Make sure the final product is FLAT and use the original holes from the interior as a pilots for drilling.

Best of luck!

 

[MacaroniNBreeze]

Looks like you got your answers, but I'll offer my brief mast stepping experience/lessons learned for the Melges 24. I added a new 3" bow roller to aft side of the top of the vertical mast support on the trailer. When we step the rig, we run the winch strap through this new roller, then clip on the kite halyard. This extra bend in the hoisting line give a much better angle and reduces the sketch factor. My mast plate hooks are bent also (I suspect previous owner did something similar) so we have one person at the mast step pulling the butt forward, one person walking the rig and one person on the winch. We have done it without someone at the base as well, when there was just 2 of us. As said above, speed is key and it gets immensely more stable the higher you go (when your shrouds go taut). I remember the first couple times seeming scary but after that we didn't even think twice.

I have one of the oldest (if not the oldest) 24 in circulation and the the step plate is original from what I can tell. No rocker and the mast is happy sitting on it. The post and step haven't crushed any GRP yet, but I've read a lot about the repair because it seems inevitable. G10 is great for compressive properties, focus on the 4 corners of the plate. Use a router to clear the top laminate and core out of the area while maintaining the bottom laminate. Make sure the final product is FLAT and use the original holes from the interior as a pilots for drilling.

Best of luck!

Thanks for the info. The 3" bow roller was exactly what I was thinking and I already installed one! I was also thinking the bent mast plate wouldn't actually be a problem after the rig is up because the stays and shrouds are what actually keeps it in place... but now that I'm waist deep in rebuilding it from the mast step down to the compression post base, I'm committed!

Great description on how to put in G10. I may reference it in coming weeks as I tackle the repairs.