+1
Sometimes you have the right, but you can end up dead right or wrong in the end. And finally, just because something is a duck, doesn't mean it has to end up roasted on a spit.
Just make them sail a Laser for the next year.
Missing HIT Finn Masts on West Coast
- Thread starter NoStrings
- Start date
Sometimes you have the right, but you can end up dead right or wrong in the end. And finally, just because something is a duck, doesn't mean it has to end up roasted on a spit.
Just make them sail a Laser for the next year.
+1
Sometimes you have the right, but you can end up dead right or wrong in the end. And finally, just because something is a duck, doesn't mean it has to end up roasted on a spit.
Just make them sail a Laser for the next year.
out-standing-in-my-field
Member
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J Buoy
Super Anarchist
Bravo Bistros....spoken like a parent.
Hobie Dog
Super Anarchist
I am with you! One of the nice things, at least what I have seen, is sailors have respect for each others gear and we trust we can leave gear out or unlocked and it does not walk away. We look out for each other and in this case this individual broke that code of honor.
But...
+3 In the end the individual did the right thing and as was stated all that was wanted is the rigs back with no questions asked. Sounds like they learned a valuable lesson in life; let it go and move on...
Hobie Dog
Super Anarchist
Ouch on the Laser comment! :lol:
And please I am not trying to start a Laser vs Finn shit fight.
Never sailed one but I do think the Finn looks cool but at 5'11' and 170 lbs. I am way too small to race one plus no OD action at all in our area. A buddy has an old school one I guess I need to take her out sometime and see what all this hype is about...
laserichard
Super Anarchist
- 2,742
- 4
the person that took the masts should be prosecuted and sent to jail
NoStrings
Super Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #28
What goddamned fairyland do you guys live in where you're completely absolved of a crime just because you happened to change your mind after the fact? To begin with, doing the RIGHT THING involves not taking the masts in the first place. There isn't any second choice. We're also talking about an adult male...someone old enough to know MUCH better. We're not talking about "stupid" where you walk out of the club and get pinched for blowing .10 on the alcohol meter. We're talking about GRAND THEFT for Christ's sake, and we're talking about committing GRAND THEFT against one of your fleet mates. This isn't a spur of the moment thought, it required some consideration and conscious decision making. I'll the first one to admit that you gentlemen are better men than I if you can see fit to forgive thievery. Personally I want someone held accountable for their actions. Yes, I/We appreciate the return of the gear, but a FREE PASS? Really now, that's stretching my moral code.
I do appreciate your opinions though. Thank you, I just don't happen to agree with them.
I do appreciate your opinions though. Thank you, I just don't happen to agree with them.
I'm not saying he gets a free pass, but until you can absolutely prove he took it, he should get the benefit of the doubt. If the person that returned the masts did originally take them, there should be some leniency for returning them. Sure shun him at club functions, let everyone in the class know he's a douche bag, but to send him up the river to prison doesn't solve anything. Not quite no harm no foul but you don't have to ruin his life for it.
Making him sail a Radial Laser for a year should do it.
Making him sail a Radial Laser for a year should do it.
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Quite. Not to mention that the person who has seen fit to return them is already publicly condemmned on the basis of what 'NoStrings' (inappropriate handle perhaps!) *thinks*. Where I come from, that's also punishable in law, 'grand' or otherwise. Being nice, I don't think NoStrings is exactly the most objective person to judge that. Whole thing is somewhat hypocritical, especially when nobody *knows* what really happened.
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bistros
Super Anarchist
- 1,264
- 13
NoStrings:
I live in the same fairyland that you do, but I see it for what it is, not what I want it to be. Crimes go unpunished every day. Don't know if you watch the news, but convicted criminals are now being released frequently in California because the state can't afford to incarcerate them. Justice exists only in fictional one hour television crime dramas and old Clint Eastwood movies. Many criminals with at least a room temperature IQ never get caught, tried or convicted.
Adult males may be old enough to know much better, but historically just about every war, religious conflict, crime and atrocity on Earth has been planned, committed and denied by self-righteous adult males. Obviously, your expectations of behavior are out of sync with reality.
You obviously have a much higher opinion of your "fleet mates" than I do. I safely assume my fleet mates would happily sleep with my wife, my daughter, sister, brother, mother or dog without any twinge of conscience. I also assume anything from a stainless shackle to a carbon mast left sitting still out of direct observation will disappear immediately and none of my "fleet mates" will see anything. Expecting the worst from people allows me to be pleasantly surprised frequently.
10K may be "Grand Theft" in your local criminal code, but my family & friends include a lot of police, lawyers and national security folks. In the grand scheme of things, $10K loss in a yacht club (that was safely recovered intact) is going to get zero attention. As a taxpayer I have to agree that I'd rather have the police keeping drunks off the road and drug dealers out of school yards if they had to prioritize their time.
You got the tubes back. You've permanently slandered a fleet mate to the point where he won't be welcome anywhere in the world. If your theories about the person in question are true, I'd agree with your results. You've already got a huge victory against all odds, now give it a rest.
--
Bill
Hobie Dog
Super Anarchist
NoStrings,
First I don't live in a fairyland. I understand you are pissed at this tool for steeling your stuff. And like I said this guy broke the trust that sailors look out for each other. I am an optimist and still believe in almost all cases that is true.
Do what you want, press charges, really screw this guy for life and waist your tax money by sending a non violent guy to jail. I am not saying steeling is right because it is clearly wrong. And yes some non violent criminals need to be put in jail but just on this one incident it seems excessive. If there is a pattern of this type of behavior then yea maybe he needs a little jail time.
Realize based on your initial post you made it very clear the masts were useless to him. But you also made it clear you just wanted them back and you would let it go. And now once you have them you are changing your mind? I guess since it is a fellow Finn class member???
If you can prove, without a doubt, or get this guy to admit what he did why don't you just have him kicked out of the Finn Class Association? Or suspend him for a year. I have never really read all the ILCA bylaws but I am sure there is some wording in there about sportsmanship and upholding the class. Finn probably has the same thing and clearly jacking somebody's masts violates being a good sport and suspend him based on that.
couchsurfer
Super Anarchist
...a bit of an aside,,,
....at $5G each for two 22' masts,,,,I'd say the 'grand theft' lies elsewhere <_<
...is that the actual value,,,or somewhat inflated????
......in the late 80's finn masts retailed at ~$800,,,,WTF??
....at $5G each for two 22' masts,,,,I'd say the 'grand theft' lies elsewhere <_<
...is that the actual value,,,or somewhat inflated????
......in the late 80's finn masts retailed at ~$800,,,,WTF??
laserichard
Super Anarchist
- 2,742
- 4
it is up to the individual who had his gear stolen to decide if he wants to press charges. if you have your crap stolen, you can make that same choice. to sit and preach to people and try to pressure them into not pressing charges because it will be "one less boat on the line" is pretty silly, imho
lukepiewalker
Anarchist
In the late eighties finn masts were made from a series of aluminium tubes stuck together with a track riveted on.
Here we are talking about a carbon fibre wing section, that and allowing for the fact you don't have to buy 20 of them to find one you like...
Here we are talking about a carbon fibre wing section, that and allowing for the fact you don't have to buy 20 of them to find one you like...
JimC
Not actually an anarchist.
Yep, lets look at the message you are sending out here. Firstly you are making it clear that your personal guarantee of no questions asked was in fact worthless. That's a kind of dishonesty too you know.
Secondly you are ensuring that in any future instances anyone who takes something by accident, or has an attack of remorse, or whatever knows that they are far better off deep sixing the stuff with a concrete block attached than they are getting it returned.
Are you *sure* these are the messages you want to send out?
bistros
Super Anarchist
- 1,264
- 13
The owner who had the masts stolen (Suntouched) was not NoStrings, so no one here is pressuring the owner of the stolen (and returned) goods. NoStrings has conducted a third party public smear campaign without trial, jury, judge or conviction on someone who may or may not be guilty after clearly stating there would be no retribution if the tubes were returned. I certainly would not trust anything that comes out of NoString's mouth - he's got a prevarication problem in conflict with his "moral code".
If Suntouched (not NoStrings) was the one posting the thread, and he had incontrovertible evidence and a conviction through the courts that clearly identified the culprit - and no prior promises regarding amnesty were made, I'm sure you'd find everyone here sitting in the bleachers, with popcorn in hand cheering on the proceedings.
Go back and READ the thread, you've obviously missed a whole bunch.
--
Bill
No Strings should stop choking the chicken!
Usual response at a club where this sort of behaviour happens is to(all unofficial);
1. Have the perpertrator redeem themself by undoing the crime.
2. Give them a first and last warning with a threat of permanent expulsion from the club.
3. Further redemption by club community work.
This works well. Absolutely no way police would be brought in if the culprit was known and a club member, unless the first warning had already been issued.
Everyone deserves a second chance within a club enviroment. Get a sense of community! Not everyone is as perfect as you.
You started well by broadcasting the "please return no questions asked" message. Then you had the chance to rehabilitate. But you seem to be a vengeful angry ant. You would seem to prefer to ruin the guys life than to help him make it better.
On another note I reckon the Finn class should introduce a rule which reduces the cost of the mast. They shouldn't cost more than $2500. From what I have heard the development masts the top blokes use can cost $20,000+++
I have a HIT which is a work of art and I can afford it but I know plenty who can't and so the class restricts itself.
Usual response at a club where this sort of behaviour happens is to(all unofficial);
1. Have the perpertrator redeem themself by undoing the crime.
2. Give them a first and last warning with a threat of permanent expulsion from the club.
3. Further redemption by club community work.
This works well. Absolutely no way police would be brought in if the culprit was known and a club member, unless the first warning had already been issued.
Everyone deserves a second chance within a club enviroment. Get a sense of community! Not everyone is as perfect as you.
You started well by broadcasting the "please return no questions asked" message. Then you had the chance to rehabilitate. But you seem to be a vengeful angry ant. You would seem to prefer to ruin the guys life than to help him make it better.
On another note I reckon the Finn class should introduce a rule which reduces the cost of the mast. They shouldn't cost more than $2500. From what I have heard the development masts the top blokes use can cost $20,000+++
I have a HIT which is a work of art and I can afford it but I know plenty who can't and so the class restricts itself.
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