Modified Columbia 30 info?

ryley

Super Anarchist
5,517
666
Boston, MA
So my engine is almost done, so I'm abandoning the outboard idea. One thing I found out is that the transom would have taken a spring loaded outboard mount, but it wasn't that simple. Like most, I have the factory-installed 2' extension. There is an inspection port in the middle of the extension that lets me get to the attachment points for the rudder gudgeons and back stay loops. 

there are also full-height longitudinal stringers just outboard of the backstay attachments that prevent you from getting to the transom. Short of putting additional inspection ports (and potentially letting more water into the boat), there just was no good way to do this.

Bummer, I've missed out on a bunch of really good races because of this, but I'll have a nicely rebuilt 1GM10 when it's all done.

 

ryley

Super Anarchist
5,517
666
Boston, MA
Back to the outboard question - our bracket isn't very elegant, but it is simple and light.  Of course we have the added hurdle of an extra rudder and the associated linkage to deal with.  This obviously requires holes in the deck, but it works.  Incidentally, we recently switched from a 6hp to a 3.5hp for our short weeknight trips to and from the racecourse.  It's a good bit easier to wrestle with every week...

View attachment 457813
When I had my Elliott 770, I had a 6 hp 4 stroke for deliveries that would push the boat at around 6 or 7 knots, and then I had a torqueedo 1003 for getting to the race course and back. Worked pretty well. The torqeedo replaced a 2.5 hp 2 stroke that finally gave up the ghost when all of the cooling channels corroded through in the leg.

 

c56602

Member
58
12
Cayuga Lake
Perhaps hire a professional in your case.
OK, OK. Thank you for making me go and diagnose and repair the issue. It was an oil pipe. I removed it (easily) and then went to the boatyard and pulled (a used) one off of a donor motor. And, what the heck, I went ahead and changed my oil filter, too. I'm back in business for $20 in parts.

 

ryley

Super Anarchist
5,517
666
Boston, MA
DSQ. Sailing without an engine!
btw, Gull, just so it's clear I only did one weekend charity race without the engine. I've done two Wednesday night races too. None of them required a functioning motor (more on that below). All were run under ORR-ez.

Interestingly, I ran an ORR-ez test cert to find out how much removing a 155 lb engine and leaving the saildrive and folding prop in would affect my rating. Surprisingly, across most wind ranges it was less than 2 spm. I re-ran the results for all of three races and re-posted the standings, positions didn't change at all.

It was a good thought experiment, because "intuitively" I would have expected removing 2.8 percent of the boat's weight would have significantly affected the performance, and I know from other conversations that that is a common belief. However, while it certainly helps (approx. 4spm) in light air, it was much less of an influence in medium and heavy air, and factors such as jib size and crew weight have a far more profound effect on rating than not having the engine weight. For instance, going from the class jib to a 155% genoa on a J105 makes the boat around 13 spm faster.

the other factor is "racing without an engine." Well, The ORR-ez rulebook makes no determination about propulsion, leaving that to the US SERs and individual OA's. The two races I withdrew from both had engine requirements (through the coastal US SER). the wed night races don't and neither did the weekend race I did. PHRF of course takes it upon itself to tell you what your safety should be even though the US SER does a much better job of that. IMO rating authorities shouldn't be in the safety business.

Once again, though, I was impressed with the clarity that VPP rating systems bring to being able to appropriately evaluate changes to a boat, holistically calculating the changes.

 

Jeannic2

New member
34
6
Saguenay
Jeannic2 said:

"Hello SA, I just bought a Columbia 30 Sport Boat 2005 in Bayfield, WI and I need to trailer it to my place: Saguenay River, Quebec Canada. The mast is stepped on a hinge and is carbon fiber. I guess it is quite easy to lower it without the need of a crane. Someone can provide some instructions or information on how to proceed?

Thanks!"

Congrats again on the boat.

Note - some boats are rigged a bit differently than others. Some have hinges, some don't. Some pivot back.

Important - First thing is to check your mast hinge to make sure it is in good working order and not corroded before you start lowering/lifting process.

Most setups have the mast pivoting forward...

If that is the case, here is what we do:

Calculate your mast lowering area requirements. Rig is going to come down almost 30' in front of boat. Make sure you clear everything. Watch for power lines, people, pets, property, etc. obviously. It's a safe to do this on the trailer if you can but I've done it in the water with no issues.

We keep the boom attached and use main halyard/boom as a fulcrum. We also leave shrouds attached since entire rig pivots forward. Your choice, but I like to put a single hi-load block on the end of the boom in place of mainsheet. I then use at least a 3/8" or larger line that ties into one of the stern pad eyes (spin block attachment) at the aft quarter, runs thru the single block on boom and over the the opposite pad eye with another single hi-load attached, leading to winch. This keeps the boom (lever) centered as it pivots forward and loaded up. Slowly ease line with multiple wraps on winch. Ease her down slowly while another person helps guide it all into place.

Tip - don't let go of line while mast is lowering.

It helps to have someone as backup and also there to help guide everything in place as it pivots down. It will eventually come down and nest into the pulpit "U" shape on the bow. Make sure you pad this beforehand. Hot water pipe insulation foam tubing or pool noodle works well here. Once rig is in the U, you can carefully remove the boom and unpin the rig and move the rig aft for transport. I like to remove the spreaders and standing rigging for transport but that's just me.

It's a big rig, so make sure you have a couple of bodies to help out. Double check everything beforehand.

Safety first. I'm sure others may chime in with what they do but this works for us.
The boat is finally arrived in my place. I had a delivery on the canadian side of the border and took over the boat at Sault-Ste-Marie. The carrier used a boom to lower the mast. I will rig everything up in the coming days to make sure everything is fine and ready for the 2022 season. Thanks for the instructions.

IMG_3195.JPG

 

c56602

Member
58
12
Cayuga Lake
Hey... Any super serious hardcore C30/32 racers, here? Super serious? So serious that you buy new sails every year (every race?) and you want to offload some older stuff that still awesome for super cheap? Just curious! I mean... I got my first quote on racing sails yesterday and that came in at nearly half what I paid for the boat - just for 2 sails. I'm not excited about sticking with carbon, I guess, as it's expensive and in our case pretty much destroyed in 3 years (2 years of which were someone else sailing it! Only 1 year ourselves!).

Well, or maybe I'll just buy a sewing machine and make my own dacron sails :)  

 
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Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,292
9,617
Eastern NC
Hey... Any super serious hardcore C30/32 racers, here? Super serious? So serious that you buy new sails every year (every race?) and you want to offload some older stuff that still awesome for super cheap? Just curious! I mean... I got my first quote on racing sails yesterday and that came in at nearly half what I paid for the boat - just for 2 sails. I'm not excited about sticking with carbon, I guess, as it's expensive and in our case pretty much destroyed in 3 years (2 years of which were someone else sailing it! Only 1 year ourselves!).

Well, or maybe I'll just buy a sewing machine and make my own dacron sails :)  
If you're considering making your own sails, or going the route of a kit (maybe you're a sailmaker already, I'm not and I have been exposed to it enough to know it is VERY finicky work); give a call to Dirk at National Sail Supply in Florida. He's a designer and broker but is very knowledgeable and will also make sails the way you want them, not the way the North or Quantum computer thinks you should have them. (linkity-link) https://nationalsail.com/

I've used him for smaller boat sails but been very satisfied, they are actually cheaper for custom jobs than kits.

FB- Doug

 

c56602

Member
58
12
Cayuga Lake
Thanks Doug! I’m joking, I suppose. I could make a Dacron sail but I want a carbon one - like I have now only in good shape and the cost of a kit Dacron one…

I’ll give them a shout.

 
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c56602

Member
58
12
Cayuga Lake
Ah! Good question! It’s only the jib that is destroyed. So it’s on a wire roller furler and that causes all kinds of damage to the first 2’ of the sail. It is not smooth.

 

c56602

Member
58
12
Cayuga Lake
@Jeannic2… I ran aground heading in to empty the head so I was able to measure the keel bolts (which I had to remove to raise the keel to get off of the bottom). Mine are 1/2” bolts that are 4 1/2” long. On the top side they have a fender washer and underneath there’s a lock washer and a nylock nut. The head and nut are, of course, 3/4”. 

Good luck rigging tomorrow!

My bobstay is Dyneema but it’s more like 3/16” and not really a string. 

 

Jeannic2

New member
34
6
Saguenay
Congrats. Post some cockpit and interior shots when you can. It's interesting to compare the minor changes that were made throughout production. I want to say this was boat 4 or 5.


Congrats. Post some cockpit and interior shots when you can. It's interesting to compare the minor changes that were made throughout production. I want to say this was boat 4 or 5.
This is hull number 4. I will be home on Wednesday to start the keel bulb repair (the previous owner hit the bottom but, after an inspection by a professional, there was no other damage than the bulb) and to rig the boat. I will post some more pictures. 

Bulbe.jpg

 

Jeannic2

New member
34
6
Saguenay
@Jeannic2… I ran aground heading in to empty the head so I was able to measure the keel bolts (which I had to remove to raise the keel to get off of the bottom). Mine are 1/2” bolts that are 4 1/2” long. On the top side they have a fender washer and underneath there’s a lock washer and a nylock nut. The head and nut are, of course, 3/4”. 

Good luck rigging tomorrow!

My bobstay is Dyneema but it’s more like 3/16” and not really a string. 
Thanks for the measurements c56602. I will get these bolts from a supplier in my place.

 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,292
9,617
Eastern NC
This is hull number 4. I will be home on Wednesday to start the keel bulb repair (the previous owner hit the bottom but, after an inspection by a professional, there was no other damage than the bulb) and to rig the boat. I will post some more pictures. 

View attachment 463679
Holy crap!!!

That thing hit HARD, good idea to check for damage elsewhere thru the keel/trunk system.

FB- Doug

 
This is hull number 4. I will be home on Wednesday to start the keel bulb repair (the previous owner hit the bottom but, after an inspection by a professional, there was no other damage than the bulb) and to rig the boat. I will post some more pictures. 

View attachment 463679
The keel box is pretty stout on these things, but double check the frames fore/aft and sides for any stress cracks as well as any bent bolts.

th.jpg

 

ryley

Super Anarchist
5,517
666
Boston, MA
The keel box is pretty stout on these things, but double check the frames fore/aft and sides for any stress cracks as well as any bent bolts.
yes they are stout. I hit a rock hard enough to put a couple superficial cracks in one of the stringers, but more importantly it deformed the stainless block on the top of the keel. It will be a very interesting off season.

btw, Irrational, my main trimmers are loving the new setup. I put springs between the coarse and fine tune and the deck and the coarse and it helps a lot in our predominately light air conditions, as well as downwind. it definitely works much better than the old setup.

 

Jeannic2

New member
34
6
Saguenay
All the keel trunk and the surroundings were carefully verified visually and with an hygrometer before buying the boat. Nothing was detected. 

 

c56602

Member
58
12
Cayuga Lake
How do you jibe this boat, anyway?

We had a big race over the weekend. We were doing really well downwind on winds up to maybe 7 kts of breeze -> our competition was sailing deep and we were keeping our apparent bang on the beam: we were clear ahead (*). The wind shifted to a beat and we rapidly fell behind, as we expected. We rounded the upwind mark and were back downwind but with more like 8-10 kts blowing. We continued with our strategy of keeping the apparent on our beam (while the others sailed deep) and we were doing OK with that. The winds kicked up to more like 12. Above 12 kts we wiped out on all our jibes (with our giant chute up) until we brought up our jib. With the jib up and main and kite eased all of the way out we could jibe fine just fine. Without the jib no amount of easing or sail handling or helm handling (we had 3 different people man the helm for these jibes - none could jibe without wiping out) permitted a smooth jibe.

We moved down from the 1,100 sft kite to the 800 sft one. Without the jib up we were still wiping out quite a lot.

[One thought crew had was that our lowers are too tight. That might be the case but, well, we'll deal with setting tension on the rigging next year. Why, hey, given that it's mostly arbitrarily set right now perhaps just setting the right tension will resolve all of these issues!]

Anyway... You have any super clever suggestions on not wiping out? I know... We have to practice more in the right winds and with the same crew and pay attention to all of the whatevers but if you could offer and nice sequence of events including what we're all doing during the jibe maybe we could see the step we're missing or doing out of order.

What we are doing now:

  • helm calls - "heading down"
  • helm releases running backstay (it's not on super tight - we're just trying to provide a little counter pressure to the chute)
  • helm starts heading down
  • main gets pulled in to center line
  • foredeck pulls lazy sheet like mad
  • clew passes forestay
  • main goes over
  • chute gets all of the way around and gets eased 
  • main gets eased

With the jib up we just finish the jibe and everything is fine and main and chute come back in. With no jib we broach. It's weird and not super fun! And... Really... We have a lot of sailing experience on the boat and people trying different things and nothing seems to be working for us. There are maybe a few more locals we can have try to help us work this out but not many! Is there something obvious we're missing???

(*) If we try to sail as deeply as this J/100, in particular, they just sail away from us... Could be the cut of their sail or something else. Who can say?

 

ryley

Super Anarchist
5,517
666
Boston, MA
you absolutely should not be wiping out in 12 knots of breeze. We regularly jibe a 950 sf A2 with two people without wiping out. 

There are two jibes to do - 1 in "heavy" air and one in lighter stuff.

in heavy air (and also dependent on sea state), don't pull the main to centerline, leave it out. Turn the boat down to almost dead down wind and get the kite around the headstay. Bow should be pulling the kite back AND DOWN at the last bit before they race to the high side. Once the kite is around, throw the main across and eased. Helm comes up to fully fill the kite and everyone hikes into the turn back down to accelerate away.

Also, at 12 knots, you should have the wind slightly behind the beam and kite way eased. in lighter stuff we definitely drive higher and play the beam reach game, but once the wind is 12+ we do it by feel on the kite and main. Also, weight back to keep the rudder in the water.

In the lighter air jibes you can turn the boat quicker, but we *never* bring the main to centerline before the kite comes across. it always comes across either just ahead or just behind the kite but is always eased and then brought on as we accelerate out of the turn.

Also, we haven't had much luck with the jib up, except on some tighter reaches where the kite might get flogged and we still need power. But it makes sense that your jibes are better because it's holding the bow down against the force of your overtrimmed main.

 




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