Modified Columbia 30 info?

[ryley]

:wacko:

Gotta love PHRF. That's one reason I still sail class boats.

I think Ryley is starting to do some ORR events on the East Coast. Perhaps he can chime in on his experience with so far.

Mass Bay started promoting ORR-ez events last year and we're continuing into 2019 in the same vein. ORA has expanded its ez reach into the chesapeake, southern florida, and the gulf coast as well as a smattering of Maine and California. There are many things to recommend ez in my opinion, not the least of which is rating the boat at different wind speeds and courses. I've attached my 2019 cert as an example. 

the 2019 version of ez is much improved over 2018 in my opinion. for one thing, the entire country is using the same courses and wind ranges, while retaining the custom ratings that some areas use like So Cal and Bayview Mac. This makes the certificate portable to any area. Also for this year, we are able to declare the max crew weight we'll be sailing with, higher or lower than the default, to more accurately reflect the way people sail their boats. lastly, (and this applied last year too), ORA does a good job of rationalizing the ratings against national PHRF averages and they take the time to try to figure out why boats rate faster (or slower) in ez than in PHRF when they differ by more than about 9spm. Last year we had about 390 certs country-wide by the end of the season with Mass Bay making up 205 of them - this year, we're already up to 151 certs overall and cold places haven't started racing yet.

There is a little more work for the RC because you have to decide on a wind strength, and different RC's have taken different approaches, but overall it's not that difficult. We did a survey at the end of the year that showed overall positive reception on the behalf of racers, OAs, and crew with the way ez performed. Of the 46 weekend races on our schedule, all but about 9 are ez races for 2019. 

ez isn't perfect, but it's pretty good and it does a good job of reflecting that 1 rating can't cover everything. I think SoCal got it partly right issuing different ratings for buoy and downwind, but still that doesn't take into account wind speed. One nice thing about ez is that you can get a very basic target table cheap because they have to generate your VPP anyway, so the cost basically covers the formatting and distribution.

ymmv, but it's exactly this seemingly arbitrary and undocumented, untraceable nature of PHRF adjustments that led us to switch.

View attachment R2ORR-ez2019.pdf

 

[Firefly-DC]

lastly, (and this applied last year too), ORA does a good job of rationalizing the ratings against national PHRF averages and they take the time to try to figure out why boats rate faster (or slower) in ez than in PHRF when they differ by more than about 9spm.

ymmv, but it's exactly this seemingly arbitrary and undocumented, untraceable nature of PHRF adjustments that led us to switch.

View attachment 306248

not so much in D fleet

 

[ryley]

Firefly, are you stalking me? I forgot that you own a sport boat, so of course this thread is relevant to you.

And  if you had read ANYTHING that Jim and I had sent you this year, you would know that your information is out of date, and AS PROMISED, there are changes being made to the ratings in the D fleet as well. Of all the people who had anything to complain about last year, it was probably me with a 21spm hit, but that didn't stop me from a) doing 14 weekend regattas (15 with Ted Hood) and b) recognizing that it would take more than one season for ORA and MBSA to figure out where the gotchas are. How many races did you do to figure out that your rating was so far off?

Plenty of "D Fleet" boats are racing competitively up and down the east coast under EZ. You lost your credibility with me when you attacked me personally in an email after I made the effort to sit with ORA for 8 hours to figure out where the issues were in the D, F, and G fleets. I've got about 50 performance analysis spreadsheets from up and down the east and gulf coasts that all show that the racing is tighter and more fair under ez, and getting better with every boat in the database. Of course you won't know that because I'm sure you'll be content to race PHRF this year, which is fine - nothing wrong with that. Enjoy your season.

 

[Irrational 14]

Ryley- Good stuff. Thanks for the progress report. I’ll be looking into this on the left coast. Seems like a good alternative as I’m starting to see more regattas incorporating this.

 

[ryley]

Ryley- Good stuff. Thanks for the progress report. I’ll be looking into this on the left coast. Seems like a good alternative as I’m starting to see more regattas incorporating this.

feel free to pm me if you want any more info. Dan Nowlan has been handling a lot of the work on the left coast.

 

[95Terp]

Anywhooo......  what are you all using for heads?  Marine head?  Porta-potti?  We're planning to go with a porta potti but the floor space in the designated head location is limited.  Any solutions out there?  

 

[ryley]

Mine came with a Jabsco twist and lock with the holding tank under the v-berth. The inlet is under the port side "sink" and there's no overboard discharge, just a deck fitting. I'm not a big fan of the Jabsco stuff but given that it barely gets used it's holding up fine, and it's fairly compact. 

https://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?name=jabsco-twist-n-lock-manual-toilet&path=-1|51|2234284|2234286&id=4210441

 

[Irrational 14]

Mine had a similar setup but I ripped all that crap out. A bucket is available in our cockpit locker if duty calls.

 

[95Terp]

Yeah - we've had both options on previous boats.  Going for something in between on this one.

 

[Irrational 14]

here's a link to the last NE PHRF cert that was issued: http://join.ecsa.net/cert2014.aspx?b=3854 - it was rated 60 up here too.

According to that cert, the boat is about 1,000lbs lighter than most of her sister-ships. If that's accurate, it most likely explains the rating change.

 

[ryley]

yeah that displacement is suspect. I thought the lightest one was eXigent, which was Tim's personal boat and came in at something like 4800. I've always declared mine as 5500 and about 1650 for the ballast, but I have the iron keel, not the carbon and I've never had any of it weighed.

 

[95Terp]

We haven’t weighed it either of course.  That’s the displacement from the old PHRF certificate. Though Exigent is listed around 100 pounds lighter even. And rates 75...

 

[ryley]

True, but eXigent is still the fractional rig. I think you're getting hit the most for going to the masthead jibs.

 

[95Terp]

Sure, but the difference in "I" dimensions is only 8%.  That should be a 6 second adjustment at most.  And we're 2 feet shorter.  

 

[95Terp]

It is what it is.  At this point we're just anxious to get on the water and see how it goes.  We had some rust issues on top of the keel to address.  It's turned into a larger project than anticipated..

 

[ryley]

looks about the same as the top of mine. And the leading edge. when you fix this, ultimately you'll want to get the keel out of the boat. the blade is pretty heavy. But if this is the 7' keel (88" total from top to bottom of bulb) when you're ready to re-fair the keel, let me know. Assuming my templates survive the process this spring, I may be able to let you borrow them in the off season. When you re-fair it, you may want to consider adding a thickener to whatever goop you use on the leading edge to to reduce the chances of a crab pot line cutting through the fairing material and exposing iron again. We've had a consistent issue with this with lobster pots up here, this year it should be in much better shape.

As to the jib question, I agree that it should only be -6. The displacement is hurting you too. Mine was rated 69 the first year in PHRF-NE, which was only 3spm slower than a J109 with genoa. I was able to appeal that to 72, which happens to be the same as a J109 in OD. You might look at the YRALIS PHRF thread - a Columbia 30/2 owner there successfully appealed his rating to 75 which is what we received from them for BIRW. That would at least get you to 69 on the jib issue. I've run into problems in some areas because they think I'm a Carbon C32 and they rate me around 54... clearly not that boat.

 

[95Terp]

The rest of the blade isn't too bad but we'll see how it looks when we get the rest of the paint sanded off and such.  We were a little concerned by the rust at the top.  It didn't really clean up like the rest of the blade.  It almost seemed like material was added or something.  We have a layer of glass on and doing another today.  Then epoxy and sanding.  And hoping it fits back in the case...

 

[ryley]

And hoping it fits back in the case...

first two people that worked on my keel paid absolutely no attention to that fact, working on it in the boat. made for a lot of swearing and a lot of sanding. I'm sure you won't make that mistake

 

[TimFordi550#87]

I feel your personal pain.  Although mine, weighing a fraction of yours, was a lot less hassle.   Still a PITA though.  And yeah, the fit going back in is a concern....don't ask me how I know

 

[95Terp]

Abundant swearing and sanding are mandatory i believe.  We have a few sets of large calipers so we are trying to take some measurements and at least pretend to be somewhat sophisticated about it.