Precisely. Where I am there are even rich guys who write articles year after year on how affordable sailing can be, and asking why more people don't join in...
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money wins!
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kent_island_sailor
Super Anarchist
Well SA bent over and then some for Gunboat, which last time I checked was not selling boats to poor people. Seems the free rides thing was what it took to get good press and ignore all the things going on behind the curtain. The M20 class does nothing for SA...............so SA does nothing good for them 
Clean and Ed are not stupid though, we all posted on here and upped their traffic count and ad revenue that also funds threads we do like.
Clean and Ed are not stupid though, we all posted on here and upped their traffic count and ad revenue that also funds threads we do like.
robalex117
Super Anarchist
And for something positive. Shout out to the third place boat which had a father sailing with his two daughters plus one cat 3.
pdevlin
New member
Yay, money.
forss
Anarchist
- 999
- 104
Yeah, sailing Melges32 against 4ktsb and then writing big article about barely beating them.
I think it is more retarded than spending money in Melges20 class.
Bash24
Super Anarchist
+1
I wish we could have an intelligent discussion about this. I have seen more and more paid pros on small boats every year. At the same time, participation is dwindling. There is a connection. Once upon a time, guys were paid to sail on boats that could only be afforded by millionaires, Farr 40's, TP52, Maxis, ect. Small keelboats remained the realm of amateurs or a place for pros to sharpen their skills, but not for a check. But, as those grand prix classes died, these dudes still wanted to get paid. I started to notice it when I asked good sailors to sail with me on a J24 from time to time and I started getting quoted "day rates." I was thinking, what? you want me to pay you to sail on a J24, that is crazy. Like it or not, it is becoming part of the cost to compete and that is a terrible thing. Boats like the Melges 20 and the J70 are supposed to be the kind of boats the average sailor can afford. But, when you tack onto that thousands of dollars in "day rates" the actual cost to campaign is out of the reach of many of the sailors for which the boat was originally targeted. IMO, that is why the numbers plummet.
KWRW is great proof of this. Look at the J70 class 47 boats, only 13 were all amateur. That reason right there is why I did not buy one.
For some reason, I have never really had a problem sailing against a pro driver who is skippering his own boat. But, when a guy who is really no better than average spends a bunch of cash to get pros on this boat and then goes and gets the trophy, that is different and just turns people off. I have a lot of friends who are pro sailors, but the permeation of paid pros into small boats is going to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
andresaaavik
Member
SO the summary of all this is that it's not just the guy listed as the skipper or the one holding the tiller - it's about having an all round GREAT team. But why the rant?
napoleon dynamite
Member
Rich Guy Wins Yacht Race
The rich guy who defeated an estimated 75 other rich guys in Monday's regatta.
SPORTS NEWSNovember 10, 1999
VOL 35 ISSUE 41 Sports · Money · Competition
NEWPORT, RI–Some rich guy came in first Monday in that big, famous yacht race held every year at the Newport Yacht Club, a big, fancy yacht place with "a whole lot of really expensive-looking boats and shit," sources reported.
"There were a whole bunch of boats out there on the water, with all these rich guys running around on them, moving ropes from here to there and switching sails around to, you know, try to make the boats go faster, I guess," said 61-year-old Newport-area dockworker Bill Duigan, who witnessed the rich guy's stunning 11th-hour victory from more than three miles away while hosing bird shit off a pier. "I couldn't see what was going on too well, on account of they were way the hell out there on the water, but from where I stood, I guess I'd have to say it looked like that one with the blue sails was movin' at a pretty good clip. I heard he was the one that won."
Duigan was then yelled at to quit talking and get back to work.
The victory marks the approximately 87,000th consecutive yacht race to be won by a rich guy since competitive yachting began, oh, probably a hell of a long time ago, sources figured.
"It is with great [something] that I hereby present this noble [something something] to a great competitor, gentleman and sailor, Mr. [something]," valet-parking attendant Larry Wynorski heard some yacht-club president or someone say during the gala awards dinner that followed the prestigious event, overhearing snatches of the speech from his spot in the parking lot outside the building.
"This must be a really big honor for the guy who won, whoever he is," Wynorski said. "They really went all out for him. I got a buddy Pete works in food service says the boss had 'em haulin' load after load of lobster and caviar and champagne in and out of there all night long. Matter of fact, he didn't even get off work until well after midnight, and the kitchen staff is usually on their way home by 10, 10:30 at the latest."
"It must've been one hell of a shindig," Wynorski added.
The yacht race–which, according to these two guys Stan and John in charge of lugging cables around, is one of the biggest deals of the year for the club–attracts "shitloads" of participants from "hell, all over the world."
"There was even this one guy who came all the way from, I don't know, China or Japan or somewhere like that, just to race his yacht," said limo driver William Mimms. "I'm not exactly sure where he was from, actually, since I didn't really talk to him all that much, because he kept the partition up the whole time."
"Still, you wouldn't think he'd come all that way unless it was pretty important," Mimms added. "This race was a real big deal, I'm telling you."
Other low-income laborers agreed. "You bet it was an important goddamn race," said marina worker Sam Tosch, who, along with his brother-in-law Bud, has a little boat he sometimes takes out fishing a bit, here and there, if he can get a weekend off, but, you know, nothing like this. "Believe me, these fellas, they take their boating real serious. I remember this one time, I was scraping barnacles off this one rich guy's hull, and he starts screaming at me, 'Be careful, you idiot! Don't you know that boat cost more than you'll earn in your whole life?' So, you can see how important it all is."
According to witnesses who observed him walking down a pier on his way to the awards banquet, the rich guy who won was "snappy-looking," wearing a fancy sailor's cap and some sort of big, lambs-wool sweater from the Hebrides. They also noted that the man was tall and well-tanned, and had a beautiful lady on his arm–in addition to being, of course, rich.
In recognition of his victory in the extremely prestigious competition, the rich guy received what sources within 50 feet or so described as "a big, fancy metal cup," which he held aloft while a bunch of other rich guys carried him around on their shoulders, clapping and cheering.
In addition to the big cup, the rich guy also apparently received, like, a ton of money, making him even richer.
Race officials could not be reached for comment on the rich guy's win, as they were cordoned off inside a special V.I.P. hospitality tent where nobody else was allowed. Club trustee Thurston Winthrop Wellington III, of the Hyannisport Wellingtons, did offer one remark, however, telling 19-year-old waitress Carrie Kallenbach to "move along but quickly, girl, if you like this job."
The victorious rich guy joins a long list of rich guys who have won sporting events this year. Among the other sports in which rich guys have excelled are "boat-rowing," "that crazy-looking horse/hockey thing," and "this one other golfy sport where you take this weird wooden hammer and, like, have to hit these striped balls through little metal things that are stuck in the grass."
The rich guy who defeated an estimated 75 other rich guys in Monday's regatta.
SPORTS NEWSNovember 10, 1999
VOL 35 ISSUE 41 Sports · Money · Competition
NEWPORT, RI–Some rich guy came in first Monday in that big, famous yacht race held every year at the Newport Yacht Club, a big, fancy yacht place with "a whole lot of really expensive-looking boats and shit," sources reported.
"There were a whole bunch of boats out there on the water, with all these rich guys running around on them, moving ropes from here to there and switching sails around to, you know, try to make the boats go faster, I guess," said 61-year-old Newport-area dockworker Bill Duigan, who witnessed the rich guy's stunning 11th-hour victory from more than three miles away while hosing bird shit off a pier. "I couldn't see what was going on too well, on account of they were way the hell out there on the water, but from where I stood, I guess I'd have to say it looked like that one with the blue sails was movin' at a pretty good clip. I heard he was the one that won."
Duigan was then yelled at to quit talking and get back to work.
The victory marks the approximately 87,000th consecutive yacht race to be won by a rich guy since competitive yachting began, oh, probably a hell of a long time ago, sources figured.
"It is with great [something] that I hereby present this noble [something something] to a great competitor, gentleman and sailor, Mr. [something]," valet-parking attendant Larry Wynorski heard some yacht-club president or someone say during the gala awards dinner that followed the prestigious event, overhearing snatches of the speech from his spot in the parking lot outside the building.
"This must be a really big honor for the guy who won, whoever he is," Wynorski said. "They really went all out for him. I got a buddy Pete works in food service says the boss had 'em haulin' load after load of lobster and caviar and champagne in and out of there all night long. Matter of fact, he didn't even get off work until well after midnight, and the kitchen staff is usually on their way home by 10, 10:30 at the latest."
"It must've been one hell of a shindig," Wynorski added.
The yacht race–which, according to these two guys Stan and John in charge of lugging cables around, is one of the biggest deals of the year for the club–attracts "shitloads" of participants from "hell, all over the world."
"There was even this one guy who came all the way from, I don't know, China or Japan or somewhere like that, just to race his yacht," said limo driver William Mimms. "I'm not exactly sure where he was from, actually, since I didn't really talk to him all that much, because he kept the partition up the whole time."
"Still, you wouldn't think he'd come all that way unless it was pretty important," Mimms added. "This race was a real big deal, I'm telling you."
Other low-income laborers agreed. "You bet it was an important goddamn race," said marina worker Sam Tosch, who, along with his brother-in-law Bud, has a little boat he sometimes takes out fishing a bit, here and there, if he can get a weekend off, but, you know, nothing like this. "Believe me, these fellas, they take their boating real serious. I remember this one time, I was scraping barnacles off this one rich guy's hull, and he starts screaming at me, 'Be careful, you idiot! Don't you know that boat cost more than you'll earn in your whole life?' So, you can see how important it all is."
According to witnesses who observed him walking down a pier on his way to the awards banquet, the rich guy who won was "snappy-looking," wearing a fancy sailor's cap and some sort of big, lambs-wool sweater from the Hebrides. They also noted that the man was tall and well-tanned, and had a beautiful lady on his arm–in addition to being, of course, rich.
In recognition of his victory in the extremely prestigious competition, the rich guy received what sources within 50 feet or so described as "a big, fancy metal cup," which he held aloft while a bunch of other rich guys carried him around on their shoulders, clapping and cheering.
In addition to the big cup, the rich guy also apparently received, like, a ton of money, making him even richer.
Race officials could not be reached for comment on the rich guy's win, as they were cordoned off inside a special V.I.P. hospitality tent where nobody else was allowed. Club trustee Thurston Winthrop Wellington III, of the Hyannisport Wellingtons, did offer one remark, however, telling 19-year-old waitress Carrie Kallenbach to "move along but quickly, girl, if you like this job."
The victorious rich guy joins a long list of rich guys who have won sporting events this year. Among the other sports in which rich guys have excelled are "boat-rowing," "that crazy-looking horse/hockey thing," and "this one other golfy sport where you take this weird wooden hammer and, like, have to hit these striped balls through little metal things that are stuck in the grass."
Funny thing is, a few weeks ago, Ed had a FB post up making the comparison between the rise of pro's into what had been Saturday night Stock Car racing which has turned into the big business of NASCAR, to the increasing pro participation in Sailing. Said the same of tennis too.
Essentially he was making the point its an inevitable process in sports, and that it wasn't such a bad thing.
Now this whiny rant? Looks like the difference is the name "Melges"...
Ironically, I agree with him in this case, except his obviously selective outrage is bullshit.
http://cdn.sailingscuttlebutt.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/ullman1986.pdf.pdf
Essentially he was making the point its an inevitable process in sports, and that it wasn't such a bad thing.
Now this whiny rant? Looks like the difference is the name "Melges"...
Ironically, I agree with him in this case, except his obviously selective outrage is bullshit.
http://cdn.sailingscuttlebutt.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/ullman1986.pdf.pdf
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It's nice that a kid and his grandpa can spend a lot time and money together bonding over something that they both love.
And I think that the other competitors in the class know what they are up against, and if they cared that much they would be sailing Etchells.
And I think that the other competitors in the class know what they are up against, and if they cared that much they would be sailing Etchells.
Swimsailor
Super Anarchist
There are plenty of thriving classes that aren't dominated by pros. I'm thinking Vipers, Ultimate 20's, etc. They just aren't as visible as classes competing in Key West and other "grand prix" events. This year, I'm stoked to be racing our clubs fleet of racers and crew for a friend in his Day Sailer at the High Sierras (if there's water). No pros, no BS, but a good, fun class.
Just like in amateur cycling, we like to get all dressed up in a sponsor's kit and go a pretend to be pro bike racers. Sailing has that same problem. I'm a Cat 3 road racer and race against guys who can afford personal coaching and take off for hours a day to train. I can't. But I still enjoy the racing. Sometimes I'm lucky, smart or in good condition and can pull out a good result. But I still love it.
MaxRouss
New member
That's what Melges are renowned for...
race a viper?
race a viper?
Even if you would want to limit the effect of money on the sport where would you draw the line? Even in semi-friendly club racing money talks. Money gets you new high performance sails, clean and polished bottoms, pro sailing instruction, electronic gadgets, time on the water practicing, etc.
Glenn McCarthy
Super Anarchist
We had a guy here in Chicago, Harry Nye. He owned a forging company, and a sailmaking company - Murphy and Nye. Naturally talented sailor, and had the dollars. At a weekend regatta he was leading after Saturday. A guy who had pulled his boat out of the water was grumbling, but didn't know Harry - "If I had Nye's money, his new boat, and new sails, I could win too." Harry overheard him and introduced himself. Then he offered to swap boats including sails on Sunday. The guy went with it and the RC gave permission. The guy went on to have his best race of the series finishing mid-pack. Harry won the race with the guys older boat and older sails.
rumfustian
Member
I bought a Melges 20, and a pro crew off Craigslist last night for $500....
bodega87
Anarchist
Why should anyone think that they should be able to compete with pros. They're not better than you at accounting, lawyering or whatever other rich white people job you have; so why would you expect you're a better sailor?
They put in the time, be it paid or not, and it shows. Practice makes perfect. I think someone said that once before.
Whoever said that sailing is a unique sport that allows you to compete with the pros is right. It's pretty cool to be able to knock around the course with the upper echelon if you want to. Very few venues of sport allow this.
They put in the time, be it paid or not, and it shows. Practice makes perfect. I think someone said that once before.
Whoever said that sailing is a unique sport that allows you to compete with the pros is right. It's pretty cool to be able to knock around the course with the upper echelon if you want to. Very few venues of sport allow this.
The kettle and the pot are extremely appropriate. Watch what happens with the new M32. Should be a repeat when there are no pros on the other boats.Sure. You can start. Explain stuff like where the money for the SA AC challenge went. Then start posting up all the free stuff / price reduced stuff (including boats) you've been given for pimping it. Then tell us how much you get for whoring out to companies and posting glowing BS about their products. Then explain how money wins when you get new boats and sails then beat up on the local FT-10 fleet. Cause transparency is good.
Go ahead.
