Most egregious cheats?

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
70,032
13,231
Great Wet North
Did the Gloucester Schooner race, and it was light air.  Owner ran the boat with the engine on until just before the start, when he shut it off.  Since we were the only really good light air boa, we would have won handily probably, without him doing this.  No cheers, just jeers at the Awards, and most of us never set foot on his deck again.
???

If the engine was off before the start what was the problem?

What is someone arrived late and had to motor out to make the start?

 

axolotl

Super Anarchist
1,656
184
San Diego
Gran Prix racing, where measurement is a battle and can be cheated by subterfuge is to be expected, just like in the Tour De France, Formula One and stock car racing.

But cheating in PHRF club racing raises my hackles.  There's way too many participants that sign their cert knowing full well they're not in compliance  To wit (in a light air venue):

  • A boat that removed their prop and did the summer series by sailing in/out of their dock.
  • Same boat using spinnakers that were 3' long on the luff & 4' long on the foot, with a pole that was 2' oversize. 
  • Same boat boat running a 165% light #1 genoa without  declaring it. 
  • Same boat with a new main with oversized roach so he couldn't tack without slacking the backstay.
  • Same boat ripped out all the doors, cabinetry, stove, toilet & batteries (1 Group 24 for the race).

This boat is a season champ apparently because of superior sailing skills.  How can that be?  Well, he's on the PHRF rating committee so no one would dare challenge him concerning "minor" issues.

 
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But cheating in PHRF club racing raises my hackles.  There's way too many participants that sign their cert knowing full well they're not in compliance  To wit (in a light air venue):
The only solution is to name and shame.

But if we are not willing to even do that on an anonymous internet forum, there’s no chance of calling them to account in person. And it’s demoralizing the honest sailors.

 
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SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
70,032
13,231
Great Wet North
Cristoforo said:
What an idiot. Do you even sail? Everyone thinks you’re an asshole. I checked with them.   Go back to PA 

And read RRS 42

If you can read  

Jerk with 51, 000 posts and no friends and internet muscles  

(Typical Sloopy statements) 
:lol:

We all know you're an asshole - no need to keep reinforcing it.

I don't race by the way.

If you ever went near the sailing forums you'd know exactly what kind of boat I have - and the ones I used to have over the past 45 years.

Off to the phantom zone moron.

 
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billy backstay

Backstay, never bought a suit, never went to Vegas
???

If the engine was off before the start what was the problem?

What is someone arrived late and had to motor out to make the start?


He intentionally ran the motor to hit line at the start going faster than the other Schooners, who were sailing without power assist just before the start.  We did not arrive late.  He did this to hit the line at speed that others did not have.  I don't recall if he shut down the donk at the prescribed time limit, but the intention to cheat if possible was there, for everyone to see.  And we would have won without cheating likely, because most schooner SUCK going to weather in light air.  This one was particularly good at it...................

 

12 metre

Super Anarchist
4,003
776
English Bay
Gran Prix racing, where measurement is a battle and can be cheated by subterfuge is to be expected, just like in the Tour De France, Formula One and stock car racing.

But cheating in PHRF club racing raises my hackles.  There's way too many participants that sign their cert knowing full well they're not in compliance  To wit (in a light air venue):

  • A boat that removed their prop and did the summer series by sailing in/out of their dock.
  • Same boat using spinnakers that were 3' long on the luff & 4' long on the foot, with a pole that was 2' oversize. 
  • Same boat boat running a 165% light #1 genoa without  declaring it. 
  • Same boat with a new main with oversized roach so he couldn't tack without slacking the backstay.
  • Same boat ripped out all the doors, cabinetry, stove, toilet & batteries (1 Group 24 for the race).

This boat is a season champ apparently because of superior sailing skills.  How can that be?  Well, he's on the PHRF rating committee so no one would dare challenge him concerning "minor" issues.
Can't you get a local measurer to confirm sail dimensions?

if the sail measurements are that much different from the declared ones the local PHRF database should automatically spit out the adjustments to the base rating upon submission.  No need to discuss what or what is not a minor issue.  No discussion at all actually.  At least, I believe that is how our local PHRF works.  is yours significantly different in approach?

A bit or a lot different when it comes to hull and foil mods.  That is much more subjective.

But as far as sail dimensions go, it should be pretty straight forward.

 

bgytr

Super Anarchist
5,072
676
Gran Prix racing, where measurement is a battle and can be cheated by subterfuge is to be expected, just like in the Tour De France, Formula One and stock car racing.

But cheating in PHRF club racing raises my hackles.  There's way too many participants that sign their cert knowing full well they're not in compliance  To wit (in a light air venue):

  • A boat that removed their prop and did the summer series by sailing in/out of their dock.
  • Same boat using spinnakers that were 3' long on the luff & 4' long on the foot, with a pole that was 2' oversize. 
  • Same boat boat running a 165% light #1 genoa without  declaring it. 
  • Same boat with a new main with oversized roach so he couldn't tack without slacking the backstay.
  • Same boat ripped out all the doors, cabinetry, stove, toilet & batteries (1 Group 24 for the race).

This boat is a season champ apparently because of superior sailing skills.  How can that be?  Well, he's on the PHRF rating committee so no one would dare challenge him concerning "minor" issues.
You gotta protest a major cheat like that.  Get him removed from racing or blame yourself.

 

12 metre

Super Anarchist
4,003
776
English Bay
He intentionally ran the motor to hit line at the start going faster than the other Schooners, who were sailing without power assist just before the start.  We did not arrive late.  He did this to hit the line at speed that others did not have.  I don't recall if he shut down the donk at the prescribed time limit, but the intention to cheat if possible was there, for everyone to see.  And we would have won without cheating likely, because most schooner SUCK going to weather in light air.  This one was particularly good at it...................
Well, if he did shut it down in time, then what he did was perfectly legit and sounds like a smart albeit non-Corinthian strategy.

Crikes, you must be in an area that has few truly light air days.  I think just about everyone has tried to pull that one off many times in our area.  Gun the engine then shut her off at the prep.

 
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billy backstay

Backstay, never bought a suit, never went to Vegas
Well, if he did shut it down in time, then what he did was perfectly legit and sounds like a smart if a bit non-Corinthian strategy.


It was years ago, but I don't think he shut it off soon enough, but even if he did, it was certainly Non- Corinthian.  This was the only Schooner in the fleet that was a light air performer. Enough so, that myself and 2 or more other crew members never set foot on that boat ever again.......

 

bgytr

Super Anarchist
5,072
676
Well, if he did shut it down in time, then what he did was perfectly legit and sounds like a smart albeit non-Corinthian strategy.

Crikes, you must be in an area that has few truly light air days.  I think just about everyone has tried to pull that one off many times in our area.  Gun the engine then shut her off at the prep.
Did he turn the propulsion off at prep or right at the start?

 
620
146
One of the positives for ORC is that it discourages lying to some extent.  Unlike PHRF, where you know that going just an inch over on some measurement is huge 3 or 6 sec hit, with measurement rules its more difficult for the skipper to see specific “penalties”, so he’s maybe more incentivized  to report accurate numbers.

It also helps that the sailmakers’ reputation is on the line with sail measurements.

 
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bgytr

Super Anarchist
5,072
676
One of the positives for ORC is that it discourages lying to some extent.  Unlike PHRF, where you know that going just an inch over on some measurement is huge 3 or 6 sec hit, with measurement rules its more difficult for the skipper to see specific “penalties”, so he’s maybe more incentivized  to report accurate numbers.

It also helps that the sailmakers reputation is on the line with sail measurements.
Compared to phrf, ORR ORC are all positive.

 

Miffy

Super Anarchist
3,834
1,700
Event cosponsors with enough corporate clout to clean slate rules re boat maintenance/conservative preservation of boat between legs despite OTHER participants being aware of the limitation and limiting themselves.  

 

Left Shift

Super Anarchist
10,532
3,273
Seattle
Cristoforo said:
I don’t recall what happened there. Even if it ‘fell off’ accidentally, they were still sailing out of compliance with their certificate.  Nothing was done ? 
It happened on the way to Hawaii.  Twice, I believe. Motored out of the harbor to the start, towed in to Ala Wai after the finish.  Magic.

 

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