Most egregious cheats?

JohnMB

Super Anarchist
2,853
620
Evanston
Currently rule 49 "Crew Position"

I think that's an older photo and this rule is one of the favorites to be re-written. Crew can't be in any position outside the lifelines, sails not to be sheeted outside the lifelines other than by a legal spar, unless specified by class rules (ie boats with a trapeze) crew cannot suspend their weight from the rigging.

At one point it was the fashion on Great Lakes J-24s to roll tack by having the bow & mast man swing outboard from the shrouds, the argument was made that they were only doing it momentarily and it was to "aid steering." I am not fond of J-24s anyway and this struck me as very dubious, did it anyway because you had to to not get buried on the first beat. Some time in the early 90s about 5 or 6 top J-24s got DSQ'd in one of the big races for it.

FB- Doug
I cant find the reference to suspending weight off the rigging.

 

ajbram

Member
470
50
Great Lakes
We were racing across western L. Erie in 20kt+ in the early 2000s. I was on a Kirby 25 (LEPHRF 171) and a Shark (LEPHRF 228) just ROCKETED past us to the low side.... Sharks are good heavy air boats, but not that good. There were 2 guys on deck... 1 driving and one trimming the Genoa from the low side. another guy below on the low side. The boat was still pretty level and really fast despite flying a 155 and not depowering the main. When they passed us we could see what looked like a 55 gallon drum hanging just under the cabin top on the high side. I walked over and took the guys a beer after the race. They had an exceptionally large (probably 55 gal.) gas tank on a pulley system so they could lever it to the high side on each tack. They called it their "big air gas tank."

 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,324
10,149
Eastern NC
I cant find the reference to suspending weight off the rigging.
As it's currently written, the wording is that the crew shall use nothing but hiking straps or battened shorts "to position their bodies outboard."  There's also Rule 42 "Propulsion" but that covers movement, not steady-state position of crew. It's standard practice, when gybing or dousing, to have a crew lean outboard and hold the guy while the pole is shifted, but this usually is only for 30 seconds or less.

I no longer have a library of old rule books except for my father's 1932 one autographed by Mike Vanderbilt, and that one has some -really- different rules in it although most of the basics are mostly the same.

We were racing across western L. Erie in 20kt+ in the early 2000s. I was on a Kirby 25 (LEPHRF 171) and a Shark (LEPHRF 228) just ROCKETED past us to the low side.... Sharks are good heavy air boats, but not that good. There were 2 guys on deck... 1 driving and one trimming the Genoa from the low side. another guy below on the low side. The boat was still pretty level and really fast despite flying a 155 and not depowering the main. When they passed us we could see what looked like a 55 gallon drum hanging just under the cabin top on the high side. I walked over and took the guys a beer after the race. They had an exceptionally large (probably 55 gal.) gas tank on a pulley system so they could lever it to the high side on each tack. They called it their "big air gas tank."


I'm pretty sure that's not kosher.

I'm not the main rules guy here, though! And I don't want to be! I just come here to see pics of girls tits!

FB- Doug

 

zenmasterfred

Super Anarchist
1,553
550
Lopez Island
Water ballast in IOR boats in the AC. 

Williwaw, Louisiana Crude and Acadia cheat in SORC in the 80's

Italian J-24s with lowered mast steps to increase rake in the 80s

Donald Crowhusrt doing donuts off Brazil, reporting false positions  while he was supposed to go around the world. Of course that one did not end well.  
Oh come on now, WTF, if your weren't pushing the window for IOR measuring you weren't there.  That was how the game was played on the Grand Prix circuit.  Loved when Blackaller came back after the Crude incident with the boat re-named Mea Culpa.

 

cosmicsedso

Super Anarchist
1,029
51
Gold Coast AUS
Australia II
Seriously?

Of course you can provide some facts to support that outrageous slur...

A2 Different? Yes. Illegal? No.

The skirts were raised at the finish for anyone to see snd guess what? Nobody successfully protested.

The USA team was totally caught napping, and A2 sailed by Aussie legends, outsailed the USA boat and won the Cup!

Fair and square.

Maybe you might like to retract, to avoid unnecessary future financial hardship?

 

Bill E Goat

Super Anarchist
4,600
396
Sydney
Seriously?

Of course you can provide some facts to support that outrageous slur...

A2 Different? Yes. Illegal? No.

The skirts were raised at the finish for anyone to see snd guess what? Nobody successfully protested.

The USA team was totally caught napping, and A2 sailed by Aussie legends, outsailed the USA boat and won the Cup!

Fair and square.

Maybe you might like to retract, to avoid unnecessary future financial hardship?
liberty getting new measurement certificates between races.  I think the NYC tried to say the draft on A2 deepened when she heeled over so was illegal, what measurement doesn't change when the boat heels over. They knew they were fucked and tried anything to stay alive.  But all credit to DC he did make it a contest

 
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620
146
not a racing cheat, but taxation: a guy hired his own crew & had a 40' Lapworth design built. Aluminum through out. Hollow keel profile, filled with tungsten (powder?millings?) in an oil solution. At some point after his death, kids can haul the boat, cut the keel open & have 4 tons of tungsten to sell. Fill the keel cavity back up with lead, re-launch boat.
I doubt his insurance company will see things his way if it sinks.

 

daan62

Super Anarchist
Water ballast in IOR boats in the AC. 

Williwaw, Louisiana Crude and Acadia cheat in SORC in the 80's

Italian J-24s with lowered mast steps to increase rake in the 80s

Donald Crowhusrt doing donuts off Brazil, reporting false positions  while he was supposed to go around the world. Of course that one did not end well.  
I've sailed a lot on a Hightension 36...(used in the one ton cup '78) two 200 liter water tanks (one on each side of the boat) with a valve inbetween... (we've never used it.)

 

crankcall

Super Anarchist
1,634
196
Toronto
We (club not me)  had an oversized spinakker for 10 races in a series, protested every night, protest committee could not get the owner to bring the kit in for measure. When we finally said all your results are tossed, bring us the kite, it was "destroyed" in a training day incident the next morning. We actually kicked him out of the club.

Fixed certs and folding props happen every season.

We now have a 40yr old boat with a brand new rudder of a completely different design, built in a custom shop, he rated all season same as the other couple "same 40yr old boat" , had no idea he needed to declare the change. Former sailing instructor, offshore racer.....

and this is at the 4kt club level racing, it goes on forever.

 

Alex W

Super Anarchist
3,346
322
Seattle, WA
Cristoforo said:
Also having a minimum 3 point adjustment is stupid.  Why not 1 or 2 or 4 or 5 points? 3 points is 10% on a J111 versus 3 pct on a shitbox  they are racing against 
Don’t forget the bias offset in PHRF numbers. It is usually around 500, so the J111 would be 530 seconds per mile. In that case a change of 3 is minor...
 

The bias is there to bring the numbers into a range that’s more comfortable for human brains (roughly 0-200).

alex

 
Sailed a Farr 40 OD,  3rd & 4th owner.  First 2 owners were at international level in the class,  3rd & 4th owners club level.

4th owner discovers that a particular rock is slightly shallower than the keel on a booze cruise with family & mates.  Keel attempts to get out of way of rock by becoming a lift keel.

Insurance assessors first question on inspecting the boat on the hard is,  when did you add the extra weight to the keel?  Neither of the club level owners were aware that there was extra lead,  on questioning earlier owners,  (who had dry stored the boat),  it seems to have been an error at the factory.  They are sure that beyond careful preparation keel is stock and that their professional maintenance crews had not noticed the issue!

 
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Svanen

Super Anarchist
1,040
293
Whitby
We (club not me)  had an oversized spinakker for 10 races in a series, protested every night, protest committee could not get the owner to bring the kit in for measure. When we finally said all your results are tossed, bring us the kite, it was "destroyed" in a training day incident the next morning. We actually kicked him out of the club.
Good work. Your club has more balls than most. 

All too many clubs, when faced with such behaviour, choose to look the other way. Generally this is because the bad actor has an argumentative, confrontational personality and the club directors don’t relish going through the necessary steps for expulsion.

 

kinardly

Super Anarchist
seems like small potatoes now after reading some of these other posts but there was this well known SoCal boat builder with quite  a successful record on light air overnighters who was turned in by one of his crew for charging his batteries with the transmission in gear. Banned for a year. There was also a story going around he'd been previously flicked from a local series for a folder when his certificate stated a solid two blade prop. Don't know how that one came to light.

 

Al Paca

Super Anarchist
2,051
593
El Lay
Dennis Connor with a small television on board getting wind information from the broadcasting blimp in the sky.

Dennis Connor having wet sails down below on a windy day - sails he was never going to use.
So if DC cheated, how much more did those limeys on Australia II have to cheat to win the Cup. 

 




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