Moth boat work: how much and what kind?

dohertpk

Member
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I've caught the bug after spending a year windfoiling and am contemplating taking the plunge. I'm pretty rubbish at boat work, however. What tends to break on moths and how much boat work does it take to keep one on the water? I'd be looking at spending around 12k euro.

 

Phil S

Super Anarchist
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Sydney
Moths are a development class so if you are serious, boat work is not just maintenance, but constant improvement. Making systems work better making experimental components and testing them. There is always something to improve. Always some potential good idea on someone else's boat worth copying.

But you can also buy a good Mach2 or Exocet and simply purchase replacement parts, and keep all the systems simple. The minimalist approach.

You can do as little or as much on your moth as you want.

 

Roller Skates

Super Anarchist
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North
My understanding was that you need to enjoy boatwork for a moth. Skills come.

I was taught to think of it in ratios. Dinghy was 1:1 repairs to sailing, high performance 2:1, and a development boats like moth 3:1 or 4:1. +1 to repair if you're new to the level. Wind & Wing foil had my attention over COVID since the maintenance is mostly zero, short of some annual tune on my foils. But the moth always captures my attention. Can't say I wouldn't be considering the same if I had the cash!

 

17mika

Anarchist
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Milan, Italy
You NEED to enjoy rope splicing and general rope/block/systems work. Systems needs a bit of tuning in order to work smoothly.

If you like to do a little bit of carbon work is helps, but if you get a good boat, you typically can live without that.

Mic

 

guppy2

New member
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Absolutely don't get a moth (especially one for 12k) if you aren't serious about boatwork. It is a constant and intrinsic part of moth sailing. 

12k will get you a waspz if you really want to get into sailing a foiling boat, but there will still be work with it. 

Have you looked at wing foiling or foiling kites? 

I've caught the bug after spending a year windfoiling and am contemplating taking the plunge. I'm pretty rubbish at boat work, however. What tends to break on moths and how much boat work does it take to keep one on the water? I'd be looking at spending around 12k euro.

 
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dohertpk

Member
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Absolutely don't get a moth (especially one for 12k) if you aren't serious about boatwork. It is a constant and intrinsic part of moth sailing. 

12k will get you a waspz if you really want to get into sailing a foiling boat, but there will still be work with it. 

Have you looked at wing foiling or foiling kites? 
Thanks - that's pretty definitive. I've sailed a Waszp in Minorca Sailing and, while the foiling was great, I wasn't impressed by the boat itself. I've got an IQ foil windsurfing set up. It's great when the conditions are right but, like conventional windsurfing, it really requires goldilocks conditions. That's why I was considering a moth - consistent foiling in a wider range of conditions. What tends to require attention and what do beginners tend to break? Just to confirm, it would be 12k euro so I'd be looking at an older Mach2 or maybe a Voodoo.

 

guppy2

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What did you not find impressive about the Waspz? 

That's why I was considering a moth - consistent foiling in a wider range of conditions. 
You will have the opposite in a moth. The Waspz comes with two different sail sizes and can be sailed in far more wind than a Moth. We have a lot of both in my club and the Waspz fleet get far more sailing for a variety of reasons including conditions 

It's not what beginners break, the boat constantly needs attention. Especially with a cheaper boat

 

guppy2

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Another factor is what people are sailing in your club. I can't imagine sailing either boat alone, and don't think I would have if there hadn't been a good few of us. Again for a few reasons like boat work, set up, rib support etc etc 

 
I have a good friend with a Moth which I sail periodically, and I've attended events in my UFO that also had a Moth class sailing.  From that perspective, I can tell you that sailing a Mach 2 or Exocet Moth involves a fair amount of boatwork, both lines and glass/carbon.   These are really light boats and they develop pretty high loads.   That's why they go so fast!  So blocks and cleats pull out.  Crashes usually don't result in damage, but depending on how the boat goes in (and where you land) tiller and gantry damage can occur.   If you are buying a used boat, your repair frequency will be impacted by how much modification was done by the previous owner, and how well it was executed.  I'm amazed and impressed by how much re-rigging and tweeking the sailors in the moth class do, but relocating blocks and cleats sometimes inadvertently increases the loads on those fittings and when the wind is up, pow, they rip free.  On the plus side, at the clubs I've been to with moth classes, the sailors treat boat repair, modification, and maintenance as a communal social session, and the sailors were super supportive of getting newer sailors with older boats up to speed.   So if you have a good group of folks around you with moths, I suspect they will go out of their way to encourage you to buy a boat sail with them, and help teach you how to keep it in top condition.   But you have to be willing to learn and invest the time.  

 

dohertpk

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Thanks for that -that's really insightful and helpful.Given that, it's probably fair to say a moth isn't for me. I wouldn't trust myself to effect a carbon repair and I'm very definitely not a tinkerer. I'll do boat work when it needs to be done, but I have zero appetite for it and get no satisfaction from it. I'll stick with with the windfoil so. Pity - I like the idea of doing 22 knots upwind!

 

RobG

Super Anarchist
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Pity - I like the idea of doing 22 knots upwind!
You've been reading too much SimonN. As a newbie to the class with a 12k production Moth that wasn't going to happen. Maybe 15 kn once you get the hang of it, 17 kn after a season or two.

 

dohertpk

Member
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I'll thank you not to disabuse me of my illusions! :)  I'm seeing those kind of numbers on my IQ foil so I'll probably stick with that.

 

dohertpk

Member
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What did you not like about the waspz?
I sailed one for a week or so in Minorca Sailing about 3 years ago, so things might have changed with the boat in the interim. It seemed to need a lot of wind to get foiling, That said, I was 80kg or so at the time so that might have been a factor. We do have a local fleet, however, and it's exclusively kids sailing them. In less than 12 knots or so, said kids don't foil. I also thought they were unnecessarily difficult to launch. Getting the foils down while on the water was a fiddly nightmare. My windfoil will happily sit at 16-17 knots upwind and I gather a Waszp would be a good bit slower. 

 

martin 'hoff

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Miami
I sailed one for a week or so in Minorca Sailing about 3 years ago, so things might have changed with the boat in the interim. It seemed to need a lot of wind to get foiling, That said, I was 80kg or so at the time so that might have been a factor. We do have a local fleet, however, and it's exclusively kids sailing them. In less than 12 knots or so, said kids don't foil. I also thought they were unnecessarily difficult to launch. Getting the foils down while on the water was a fiddly nightmare. My windfoil will happily sit at 16-17 knots upwind and I gather a Waszp would be a good bit slower. 
You might be already sailing on the best foiling platform for your money and boat work budgets. Hard to beat an IQ. 

 

guppy2

New member
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I sailed one for a week or so in Minorca Sailing about 3 years ago, so things might have changed with the boat in the interim. It seemed to need a lot of wind to get foiling, That said, I was 80kg or so at the time so that might have been a factor. We do have a local fleet, however, and it's exclusively kids sailing them. In less than 12 knots or so, said kids don't foil. I also thought they were unnecessarily difficult to launch. Getting the foils down while on the water was a fiddly nightmare. My windfoil will happily sit at 16-17 knots upwind and I gather a Waszp would be a good bit slower. 
Waspz doesn't need much more wind than a moth, comes with a large sail that most people use (in my club everyone exclusively uses the large sail except one girl). Three years ago Minorca Sailing might have been the old foils, they were replaced by larger ones in 2018 or 2019 - made a big difference. It's also easier and faster to launch than a moth so if you found that difficult, you're unlikely to be able to launch a moth at all. 

I'm very surprised to hear your local fleet is exclusively kids - they are still an expensive boat. Also kids would be foiling in about 10 knots because they are light and the sail and foils are large so that sounds unlikely.

My local fleet is a really good mix of about 7 x 45-60 year olds (parents), about 10 of their kids (16-23 year olds) and about 10 x 30-something year olds. Close to 50-50 gender split. Most clubs are the same. Lot of parents share boats with their kids, and lots of 30 somethings that don't want the hassle of a moth. I am the last moth sailing in my harbour and will probably switch the waspz in the future. 

 

guppy2

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One other thing to factor (with both boats) is additional expenses that you might not normally consider. Insurance is dear for both, and currently not possible for the moths - very difficult to find insurance if at all. You may need to pay for rib support in the beginning (or in the case of some people, all the time) which isn't cheap either, and have a driver out. I found myself very quickly spending a lot of money on stuff like dyneema, carbon, buying tools like a Dremel, drill etc, expensive bits from china, replacement foils once (€2k - and wasn't able to claim on insurance), sail repairs, blocks etc etc. I love foiling, but it is also very frustrating, costly and time consuming and sometimes I think I'll just sell everything and get a wingfoil. 

 
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