MU5735 chinese airlines crash

Lowly Crew

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sailing
used to be one by one. Now it's more 2-3-4 at a time, and those don't make the news anymore either. 109 mass shootings already this year. More than 1 per day.
Can't really give a positive response to that can I.

Grotesque might start to describe the situation.

 

Borax Johnson

Anarchist
557
107
A guy on airliners.net noted the FR24 x-axis timescale was not linear and recharted the data (also calculated airspeed).  More granular but no less terrifying.  Looks like the pilots did an amazing job in almost recovering before the final plunge.

RIP

View attachment 499586
The data that is available at this point is real time radar, radio transmissions. The flight data is ADS-B. ADS-B is not real time in all of China. AVHERALD.com had comments (now gone) that the ADS-B data was updated in ~50 second segments. Wait for the investigation (yeah, I know, China. It will be what they want it to be). Just saying that the concrete data may never emerge other than ATC given the kinetics and government.

 

Cal20sailor

Super Anarchist
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I couldn't imagine being on the plane.  fall 20K feet  recover briefly, and then fall another 10K 

express elevator to hell...
As a plane owner I would bitch each year at the Annual costs.  A week later I'd be in some kind of flying shit and thank myself for not going cheap.  We do the same thing sailing with kinder results.  Expensive is once, cheap is forever.

This is every pilot's nightmare...my best to all impacted.

 

Foreverslow

Super Anarchist
flight recorder good for 3400 Gs.  Pretty impressive.

So is the 1st officer. Had 31,000 hours of flight time.  That is no typo.

Evidently was one of China's 1st commercial pilots and was due to retire this year.

 

RedTuna

Super Anarchist
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The data that is available at this point is real time radar, radio transmissions. The flight data is ADS-B. ADS-B is not real time in all of China. AVHERALD.com had comments (now gone) that the ADS-B data was updated in ~50 second segments. Wait for the investigation (yeah, I know, China. It will be what they want it to be). Just saying that the concrete data may never emerge other than ATC given the kinetics and government.
Fifty seconds?  Wouldn't that make it unusable by Chinese ATCs?  I read a year or so back that China had gone from maybe 10% ADS-B coverage in the mid-teens to about 90% coverage last year; seriously phenomenal implementation.  And there were maps showing the coverage.  I'll see if I can find the article in a bit.

 

mikewof

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Speculation on PPRUNE is loss of vertical stabilizer or rudder hard-over.  While the angle in the video may be misleading, even a full trim runaway apparently only gives a 45 degree dive, assuming the pilots use full control deflection to resist.  The momentary recovery is a clue.  Yeah, the CVR and FDR might not help with this one.

There was another one like this at Rostov-on-Don a few years back - loss of control during a go-around.

RIP.
I read that they found the parts of the tail, which seems to rule out the horizontal stabilizer just breaking off. And they had no time for a distress call, experienced pilot, with no obviously way for a plane like that to dive that steep. Could a catastrophic failure of the jack screw allow the elevator to push past the full trim? One report said that they can get a better idea once they can find where the trim was set by the position of the screw.

The whole thing seems so random. The Rostov crash was in bad weather, this one seemed to be a clear day in the video. And they recovered for a bit, could that mean they still had some control of the stabilizers?

 
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Liquid

NFLTG
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Not really.

We just notice it more when a big lump of humanity goes in one fell swoop.

Consider the, I think, 19000 murders in the USA in a year that happen one by one or so.

Or the carnage in Ukraine.

Planeloads of people get the best headlines :(
How about the 38,000 auto fatalities per year in 'Murica...

 

hobot

Super Anarchist
This talk about the jackscrew reminds me about this fatal crash.

N963AS, the Alaska Airlines MD-83
aircraft involved in the accident.

Alaska_Airlines_MD-83_N963AS_Santa_Ana_15-09-92_(cropped).jpg

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Airlines_Flight_261

Boeing 737 jack screw;

nt2l31iw28y71.jpg

 
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Borax Johnson

Anarchist
557
107
flight recorder good for 3400 Gs.  Pretty impressive.

So is the 1st officer. Had 31,000 hours of flight time.  That is no typo.

Evidently was one of China's 1st commercial pilots and was due to retire this year.
FO 31,769 hours. Pilot 6,789. How do you go ~32,000 hours and never make it into the left seat?

Oh, wait. That answered itself.

 

Foreverslow

Super Anarchist
FO 31,769 hours. Pilot 6,789. How do you go ~32,000 hours and never make it into the left seat?

Oh, wait. That answered itself.
I got lots of questions on this and why I noted it.

But a buddy who is a retired Delta big plane pilot who never put a mark on an aircraft during his career cautioned me  "They will figure out the cause.  Speculation isn’t helpful."

So I will STFU until the report comes out cause Bob is a pretty smart guy.

 

Laurent

Super Anarchist
2,322
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Houston
FO 31,769 hours. Pilot 6,789. How do you go ~32,000 hours and never make it into the left seat?

Oh, wait. That answered itself.
I believe that if you change plane type, for instance from being a pilot on a A320 to flying a B777, you automatically go back to a First Officer position. So you may have many flight hours, and still be a FO because that particular type of plane is new to you.

Some real airline pilots in this forum may correct me...

 

Mike in Seattle

Super Anarchist
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Newer plane ... does anyone know, did it have the newer electrical horizontal stabilizer trim, or the regular pneumatic jack screw setup?
 Mike, rewatch the vid posted by weightless on Monday. 

At 10 minutes the jackscrew & function are shown.  It looks like a ballscrew (that you would see in a machine tool) because it _is_ a ballscrew in a specialized application. 

 

mikewof

mikewof
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 Mike, rewatch the vid posted by weightless on Monday. 

At 10 minutes the jackscrew & function are shown.  It looks like a ballscrew (that you would see in a machine tool) because it _is_ a ballscrew in a specialized application. 
Thanks, looks like a ball screw.

So the plane has this crazy steep dive angle, but they recover for a moment. How could that happen? Wouldn't a catastrophic failure the screw or the elevator surface in that steep of a dive would make a recovery impossible?

And this makes it even more strange: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/3171854/china-eastern-flight-5735-suspected-debris-found-10km-crash-site-search

Any ideas?

 




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