my Cup runneth under

jaysper

Super Anarchist
10,172
1,295
Wellington
No more cheating than Te Rehutai's lowered deck mainsail enlargement. On the other hand, Luna Rossa's 'no backstays' was outside the Rule.

Yacht design history is littered with other 'rule-cheating' but legal innovations.
Spot on sbd!

If the measurement committee sights it and deems it compliant with the rules then it ain't cheating.

In 83 when the Ozzies turned up in NY Oz II had already been measured and deemed compliant.

Didn't stop DC from being a cunt though.

 

jaysper

Super Anarchist
10,172
1,295
Wellington
Have you actually watched the America's Cup before? American Magic is definitely not the first yacht to sucumb to the elements! Nor the most spectacular at doing so.

The IACC's were so heavy and wound up so darn tight the rig could snap the boat in half!

Hell they even got AM back up and running (sorta).
Indeed, Oz challenge in San Diego being the most spectacular and catastrophic.

I miss the IACCs but they certainly weren't a risk free investment.

 
G

Guest

Guest
Indeed, Oz challenge in San Diego being the most spectacular and catastrophic.

I miss the IACCs but they certainly weren't a risk free investment.
true but at least they didnt have to be followed at all times by a chase boat with two kitted up divers in it.  Andrew Simpson did not need to die

 

jaysper

Super Anarchist
10,172
1,295
Wellington
true but at least they didnt have to be followed at all times by a chase boat with two kitted up divers in it.  Andrew Simpson did not need to die
So I'm on record as disliking both sorts of foiler.

However, two points:

1. Big Red was an appalling and seemingly inherently dangerous design.

2. Oz 35 could have just as easily entangled one of the ockers in it's rigging on the way down.

 
G

Guest

Guest
The competing yachts or vessels, if of one mast, shall be not less than forty-four feet nor more than ninety feet on the load water-line; if of more than one mast they shall be not less than eighty feet nor more than one hundred and fifteen feet on the load water-line.
Heres a bit of a segway, what do you think the LWL is for a foiler; I'm thinking about 18" :)  

 

Sisu3360

Anarchist
623
210
So I'm on record as disliking both sorts of foiler.

However, two points:

1. Big Red was an appalling and seemingly inherently dangerous design.

2. Oz 35 could have just as easily entangled one of the ockers in it's rigging on the way down.
Didn’t the Spanish boat in 95 or 00 have a fatality?

 

shanghaisailor

Super Anarchist
3,140
1,282
Shanghai, China
As with the other days racing inAC36 I provided a 'Days report' to the Editor for Day 7 (Race 10). He decided to go with ANarchist David's piece of (insert your own description)

For those who are interested here it is. I know the editor received it as the piece on the front page is a direct cut & paste of the part about the new CoR even down to the error that Aaron Young is the RNZYS Commodore, not the RYS Commodore as I wrote- ha ha.

You can like it, down vote it or just ignore it, frankly I don't give a f*** anymore

I have a lot of respect for the America's Cup, perhaps from spending time with my writing mentor Bob Fisher and have no time for those who belittle one of the pinnacles of our sport

So I'm done - at least for a while.

Have at it!

THE FINAL COUNTDOWN

Today was always going to be all on. The weight of a nation hoping and expecting Burling and his team to seal the deal while Luna Rossa needed to win ever one of the remaining races to upset the apple cart.

And if anyone was in any doubt as to the interest, there were an estimated 3,000 boats on the water and no free space at all in the race village,

The first 3 days saw honours shared but bit by bit the Kiwis seemed to be knocking the rust off their 3 raceless months. Day 4 meant they put in the wedge winning both races compounding that with a win in the best race of The Cup so far.

Sailing a fast boat a) makes you look good and b) certainly helps the confidence as well.

One area where criticism has been aimed at Te Rehutai was the start box but in Race 10 where the chips were certainly down they absolutely nailed it, and did so cleverly.

In what looked like a planned move the NZL boat hung back just a little rather than fighting for the ‘committee boat’ end placing them slightly behind LRPP but preventing them tacking to the favoured right hand side, and over ETNZ went, Burling was clearly on fire.

It was clear from the pre-start where Burling fooled everyone with, when Burling went into a tack in the pre-start even Nathan saying ‘ Jimmy Spithill will try to shut them out’ with Ken Read ‘he’s in an interesting spot here’ but Burling was weaving, burning off position, he clearly didn’t want to mix it and with the half the start line to play with and sitting on LRPP’s hip it was ETNZ which was free to tack away early onto the right hand side of the course. When he needed to Burling nailed it.

Both boats went to the boundary LRPP to th left and ETNZ to the right with an initial lead showing to the Kiwis and at the first cross tacked on top of the Italians forcing them back to the left.

Half way up Leg 1 the lead moved t the Italians (Lead Change 1) but as they met again Luna Rossa had to dip the Kiwis (Lead Change 2) crossing at around 30 kts. Lead at Mark 1 was around 100m or 7 seconds.

Down leg 2 the NZL lead went up to over 200m but was on a bungee cord and for once Te Rehutai didn’t just sail off into the sunset.

At the first bottom mark both teams didn’t have their best rounding. Up the second beat though the Kiwis started to extend  to over 300m and it was already looking like it would take a mistake by the them for them to lose the race. Quite the opposite they tacked right on the wind of the Italians giving them bad air. The loose cover was effective and ETNZ hit the half way point of the race 27 seconds to the good.

Down the second ‘run’ the New Zealand lead at times surpassed 600m and it was already starting to look like an impossible task for Spithill, Bruni et al.

Up the final beat the lead rarely dropped much below 500m leading to a mark rounding 49 seconds up. If it wasn’t all over before the baring a major gear failure it was now. So it proved to be with Emirates Team New Zealand crossing the finish line 46 seconds ahead. This was a race where the Kiwis knew what they wanted from the start and at the start and basically controlled the whole race from the get go. I had to chuckle with Steve McIvor’s comment as they crossed the line that the team had ”proved that Kiwis can fly” (the Kiwi is a New Zealand flightless bird BTW). He maybe doesn’t know a great deal about yacht racing but he has had some pearlers of one-liners.

The reception for the team, in effect, started on the tow back with waves and shouts from the returning spectator fleet as Te Ruhutai was towed back towards Viaduct Harbour and received rapturous applause as they entered the basin.

Interviews ensued as the team soaked up the atmosphere. Meanwhile on the feed’s ‘Top Chat’ some were impatient for the presentation. These guys have worked for almost 4 years for this moment – let them enjoy it I say.

I loved the tradition of the Maori Chiefs welcoming ETNZ across the bridge and shows how natives and incomers can show respect to each other. Sorry if that sounds almost touching on the political but it had to be said because it was there.

Another little piece of ‘tradition’ was the MC for the trophy presentation was the ‘Voice of the America’s Cup’ Peter Montgomery who shared that duty with Bruno Trouble who put together the original Challenger Series way back in the ‘80’s.

Luna Rossa’s Max Serena was gracious when his team were announced on stage but the real wildness from the crowd started when the NZL sailing team took to the stage, then the whole team, everyone involved in any way with the defence.

That Cup is going to need a lot of washing and polishing after all that champagne and handling – but who would dare begrudge them their glory.. What a waste of good champagne though.

SO where from here.

We have it on very good authority that subject to the required paperwork being completed that the Royal Yacht Squadron Commodore Aaron Young was not just there for the party and that the new Challenger of Record will indeed be GBR’s Royal Yacht Squadron.

Yes, for once the rumours and scuttlebutt were true and the next Cup will be Squadron against Squadron and of course anyone else who wants to join in.

A fitting day’s racing to cap off a first class event.

'Stay well guys, i might pop into the forums from time to time.

or - See ya on the Water

Shanghai Sailor - I'm Out

 
G

Guest

Guest
I think a lot of the " it's not sailing" is correlated with "can't see sailors doing anything as they manipulate their controls and can't see details of trim, etc on camera"
What, cant see the human oil pumps?

 

Rennmaus

Super Anarchist
10,546
2,076
What is the conflict about? The Ed has not published an article on the FP? Has he had the obligation? 

 
For those who are interested here it is. I know the editor received it as the piece on the front page is a direct cut & paste of the part about the new CoR even down to the error that Aaron Young is the RNZYS Commodore, not the RYS Commodore as I wrote- ha ha.

You can like it, down vote it or just ignore it, frankly I don't give a f*** anymore

I Shanghai Sailor - I'm Out
Good piece SS,

the only correction I would add is that Burlings pre-start was actually better than you have said.

When they are both coming back to the line on Stb, LRPP has the opportunity to shut out ETNZ at the boat end, but ETNZ give a fake attempt at a hook which forces LRPP to bear away, thus guaranteeing ETNZ the space between LRPP and the committee boat to sit on LRPPs hip.

 

shanghaisailor

Super Anarchist
3,140
1,282
Shanghai, China
Good piece SS,

the only correction I would add is that Burlings pre-start was actually better than you have said.

When they are both coming back to the line on Stb, LRPP has the opportunity to shut out ETNZ at the boat end, but ETNZ give a fake attempt at a hook which forces LRPP to bear away, thus guaranteeing ETNZ the space between LRPP and the committee boat to sit on LRPPs hip.
You are right Chapter Four, I did miss that piece out. PB completely sold a dummy to LRPP which is perhaps why they went so far down the start line. If was an incredibly good piece of match racing pre-start and with it being such high profile I would not be surprised to see some of the lower echelon match racers trying to add that to their repertoire.

I doubt id i will ever tire of watching it as it was a match racing masterclass.

BTW - I managed to stay 'out' for a long time didn't I.

GOd ya gotta love this sport 

 

Rennmaus

Super Anarchist
10,546
2,076
Simple really

"I'm putting it up today" - 

Still waiting - no worries, a bit of pique perhaps on my part, articles don't just 'happen' and thought people should see it - for good or bad.
Thanks for the reply and thanks for letting us read the piece. 

 

Guvacine

Member
328
78
North CA
Simple really

"I'm putting it up today" - 

Still waiting - no worries, a bit of pique perhaps on my part, articles don't just 'happen' and thought people should see it - for good or bad.
Shanghai Sailor,

Your enthusiasm for the Cup event puts you in a very small global minority. Perhaps that's why the Ed chose the other more sceptical and objective post that reflects that reality?

 

shanghaisailor

Super Anarchist
3,140
1,282
Shanghai, China
Shanghai Sailor,

Your enthusiasm for the Cup event puts you in a very small global minority. Perhaps that's why the Ed chose the other more sceptical and objective post that reflects that reality?
Really? The editor has had a strange downer on what the world (both sailing and non sailing) considers to be (at least) one of the pinnacles of the sailing world.

The phenomenon of thousands of spectators turning up to match a America's Cup race is not a new or uniquely New Zealand happening. Thousands used to turn up just to watch the launching of some of Lipton's or Sopwith's challengers.

An America's Cup challenge has never been a cheap affair. Even the initial challenge for the One Hundred Pound Cup took the financial efforts of not one but six members of the New York Yacht Club.

One of Sopwith's life long, virtual death bed, regrets was he didn't pay the salary requests of the Brightlingsea fisherman and instead crewed Endeavour (2 i think) with keen amateurs - it is widely regarded she had the makings of a winner.

Factor in inflation and I think you will find the raw costs of a challenge yacht in a AC75 differs little from a Big Boat or a J-Class yacht.

Note I say costs of the yacht. The cost of transport of the yacht from country of build to country of the regatta hasn't, in real terms changed much. In fact with global transport may been have reduced.

What has grown perhaps are the salary costs of 100+ people over a 3 year time span to produce a yacht that, in the present cup, 3 times out of 4 was not fast enough. If anything would reduce costs it would be team size. I was have to admit i was staggered how many ETNZ team members poured onto the stage at eh AC36 prize giving - and most of them were living at home. 

Whenever billionaires are involved in any activity we mere financial mortals can only stand and watch and to put thins into perspective, even the likes of Bezos & Musk would be second division compared to Morgan, Rockerfeller and Vanderbuilt whose combined, inflation adjusted, wealth, by many estimates, topped $1Tr   

I make no apology for my enthusiasm which was only heightened by my friendship with The Fish who had a lifelong passion for (and a knowledge second to none) of the attempts to wrest the America's Cup along with a journalistic ability second to none.

Saying the America's Cup is to expensive is no different from complaining the Ritz charges $X hundred a night for a suite or certain restaurants wont let you dine without a jacket and tie. Their game, their rules. In this case George Schuyler's rules. He gave The Cup (deeded it) to NYYC with certain specific rules enshrined in the Deed of Gift. If people don't like the rules - don't play. Don't like what you are seeing - don't watch.

From a personal standpoint i would love if the America's Cup was 'more affordable'. I was Commodore of our club when we issued a challenge in AC32. Sadly, although we had the entry fee, the late entry fee and the performance bond we decided we should withdraw at the 11th hour as we couldn't guarantee the funding to guarantee to do justice to our club, the syndicate and most importantly The Cup itself. It was a painful decision but even all these years later still feel it was the correct one.   

Regarding number of entries? It should be remembered that on only 3 occasions have you had to take your socks off to count the number of entries and although it is often quoted there were multiple entries as far back as 1970, on both that occasion and the following challenge in 1973 the multiple entries amounted to 2 boats. In fact France did it on the cheap and entered the same boat in 1970 & 1973 and it was only 1983 where the fingers of more than one hand were needed.  

Bottom line is whether we like it or think it is rubbish or not, we are only observers, we don't make the rules.

We are all entitled to an opinion one way or another BUT in terms of being in the "very small global minority" I refer only to the Sailing Anarchy forums where the total posts in Cruising Anarchy = 450k; total posts in Dinghy, Sport Boat & Multihull Anarchy = 568k while the total posts in America's Cup Anarchy = 638.9k with the views per post in America's Cup Anarchy dramatically higher than the other 4 forums.

On Sailing Anarchy ( a site I love by the way) America's Cup interest most certainly doesn't appear to be a "very small global minority" amongst the readers.

BUT - we are all entitled to our opinion - here anyway.

See ya on the water.

SS

 

yoyo

Anarchist
761
318
We are all entitled to an opinion one way or another BUT in terms of being in the "very small global minority" I refer only to the Sailing Anarchy forums where the total posts in Cruising Anarchy = 450k; total posts in Dinghy, Sport Boat & Multihull Anarchy = 568k while the total posts in America's Cup Anarchy = 638.9k with the views per post in America's Cup Anarchy dramatically higher than the other 4 forums.
It would be interesting to see what the actual number of worthwhile AC forum posts would be if you removed the endless number of "I'm right you're wrong, your team sucks, ______ is a ____, foiling sucks, landmines rule, blah.. blah.. blah" back and forth opinionated PA like BS from almost every AC thread.  And for # of views - everyone likes watching fights and train wrecks.  Definitely more minutes of entertainment reading the BS on SA than actual on the water AC racing.

 

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