My even newer project for The Man In The Moon

Bob Perry

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Pano:

That would be my hope. But I'm not willing to compromise the hull shape and give up windward performance potential.

Ish & Ranti:

The sole of the fwd cockpit IS deck level. It's part of the deck camber. It will drain at the aft end out to the side deck.

If you look at my interior plan drawing and look at the profile what you see as the cockpit sole forward is wrong. That was an early revision.

Here is a newer drawing:

If you look at both the profile and the section I think it will make sense. It will come down to evaluating the impact of the well on the layout forward. Not sure where we will end up yet.



 

Crash

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So here's an off the wall thought. One of the advantages of a lug rig (and other similar rigs) in a small boat is that it can be un-stepped, and stored inside the boat. If the rig is going to be carbon, I wonder if the mizzen would be light enough to unstep and store on deck (in a cover). That would be useful maybe while at anchor to access the swim platform, and possibly if you knew your next leg was going to be mostly close hauled where the mizzen may not be set and doing any real work (and so is just drag).

The more I think of it, the more I'm pretty sure it's not really practical, and just adds complications, and that you really wouldn't un-step it often enough to make it worthwhile on a boat of this size, with a gaff rigged main anyway...

 

Bob Perry

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Steele:

As Jose says, yes, absolutely and we have been doing that. But I have been doing the same thing in 2D for 40 years. The key to successful drawing in 2D is seeing things in 3D. I have developed a knack for that. Ask Jody about that.

Crash:

I'm not sure your idea is crazy. Thanks.

Today I have some work to do "tidying up" some of Dave's drawings. Then I will look at what can be done with rudder location, tiller option and mizzen mast step options. Sounds alike a full day. But I have Ruby to walk and Ludwig Van on the hi-fi so it will be pleasant. I am fortunate.

 
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monsoon

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So here's an off the wall thought. One of the advantages of a lug rig (and other similar rigs) in a small boat is that it can be un-stepped, and stored inside the boat. If the rig is going to be carbon, I wonder if the mizzen would be light enough to unstep and store on deck (in a cover). That would be useful maybe while at anchor to access the swim platform, and possibly if you knew your next leg was going to be mostly close hauled where the mizzen may not be set and doing any real work (and so is just drag).

The more I think of it, the more I'm pretty sure it's not really practical, and just adds complications, and that you really wouldn't un-step it often enough to make it worthwhile on a boat of this size, with a gaff rigged main anyway...
That's a great idea. Then you could easily take it off an put it in the garage where it belongs.

 

shaggy

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Bob, I grew up on a mariner 32, and that aint no ketch..... that is a yawl as the mizzen is aft of the steering station..... ;) :p :D :lol:

On a serious note, you might want to take a look at the sailing characteristics with only the mizzen and jib up and working.. Try and get that configuration correct as that is how the boat will be sailed on short jaunts, harbor cruises and inshore with guests not so comfortable on boats. I can remember many many times where I would try and try to get dad to put the main up, but he always hedged based on the people on board...
Also, as my parents have aged.. Dad is 80, mom 79, they have not had the gumption to put up the main so much as it tends to be difficult.. My 2 cents...

 

Bob Perry

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Well: I'm a bit more inclined to Monsoon's approach.

As I will continue to say I don't care what you call it. It's just a word. But, I think you are right, it's more of a yawl. In any breeze I suspect the mizzen will come down and the boat will sail on main and headsails. But I see no reason you couldn't wank along under headsail and mizzen. It's a matter of personal; sailing style.

 

DDW

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You could easily make the mizzen unstayed (or maybe it is already, can't really tell). No rigging to be dealing with all around the cockpit. My mizzen is more that twice that big and much taller, the tube weighs a little over 100 lbs. Two people literally could pick it up and stick it in the hole.

 

Bob Perry

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DDW:

It is unstayed now. I'm going to have it step in sleeves against the aft cockpit wall. It would be very easy to stand on deck and remove it. I'm not sure why you would but I like the option.

What is the diameter of your mizzen? I'm guessing at 4" dia. That would look right. Have to see what is available in NZ as a stock tube.

 

SemiSalt

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Would a gnav work on the mizzen to reduce sheet load, which might allow you to shorten the stern sheeting dick?
Isn't that a marlinboard?On a balanced lug rig, the vang effect comes from the luff tension on the fotreward end of the boom working with the fulcrum provided by the downhaul. On a standing lud with a sprit boom, the vang effect comes from the tension on the foot of the sail. No gnav needed.

 

lasal

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I personally would have underestimated the utility of a small mizzen.

But two weeks ago while in FL on Caya Costa near Fort ************, I watched a single hander on a Bolger sharpie around 30' sail out of Pelican Bay on this tiny mizzen alone just humming along. I was impressed. Useful little sail.

 
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lasal

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Can you say Fort ************ on CA?

Apparently, no. What happened in that city north of Naples?

 
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tomasis

Anarchist
Looks cool. Quite modern.

I think it's what "different" is meant to be.

I start liking pilot houses. It must be spacious and bright inside. :)

 
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The Advocate

Super Anarchist
Would a gnav work on the mizzen to reduce sheet load, which might allow you to shorten the stern sheeting dick?
Isn't that a marlinboard?
On a balanced lug rig, the vang effect comes from the luff tension on the fotreward end of the boom working with the fulcrum provided by the downhaul. On a standing lud with a sprit boom, the vang effect comes from the tension on the foot of the sail. No gnav needed.
Thanks Semi. Not going to comment on this rig as I have no experience with it, and given the company I keep here I look forward to learning.

 

Bob Perry

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I have no experience with this rig also, But I figure , it's a sailboat. I can deal with it. That has always worked in the past.

 

JBE

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Auckland, NZ
My guess is that It will probably be faster than what people expect when seeing it from far away, especially on a reach which you often get offshore.

Perhaps the client has seen a graph like this one by Manfred Curry:



If you can decipher the markings, the big lobe up and to the left shows a gaff sail generating a huge amount more power with started sheets than a marconi sail.
I've spent a lot of time sailing gaff rig and that is true . What is also true is that because of the same you need to be pretty proactive about reefing.

No cruiser plans to bash to windward for any significant amount of time, its all about eased sheets eh. I can imagine that boat slotting into a very nice groove to Fiji or Tonga.

 




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