My even newer project for The Man In The Moon

Mr. Ed

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Further to the bowsprit, consider what's going to happen if you plan to routinely house it in harbour or heavy weather. With a conventional roller reefing jib, when you house the sprit, you're going to have a problematic lot of stiff aluminium section to deal with that will almost reach the water when brought back in the boat. On smacks and pilot cutters, the jib is either hanked on, or flies on its own luff or on something like a Wickham Martin furling (not reefing) gear, and is dropped and hoisted completely.

 
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Bob Perry

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Sled:

Here;s a good example. Imagine NIGHT RUNNER without a sprit and more hull. It would have been an entirely different boat. The cliient wanted a boat with a sprit in the tradition of the Atkin cutters.



 

SemiSalt

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Years back, I read a review of a C&C which had a short bowsprit. Why a bowsprit? "We got everything else done and the rig needed to be a bit further forward."

If you took a boat like Night Wind and rebuilt the bow with enough overhang to eliminate the bowsprit, how much weight would you add? Is the tip of the bow a great place for extra weight?

 

Mr. Ed

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Mizzens overhanging the back and sprits at the front is partly a way of getting lots of power but keeping it down low. Long sprits were needed with smacks and pilot cutters because the huge mainsail, which was fast, gave a lot of weather helm.

IMIO, the enthusiasm that late 20th Century American mainstream crusing boats had for bowsprits was a fashionable affectation. Wasn't ever thought necessary on similar cruising boats from elsewhere.

 

shaggy

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BOB,

Just noticed the boomkin... We had one on our first boat, Triska, 1930 ish pennant sloop... It got taken out by other boats on a regular basis (I remember 3 times) just sitting in the slip... Just another thing to rattle around in your brain.... :)

 

Bob Perry

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Shags:

It's not a swim platform that will act like a boomkin.



SemI:

You make a good point on sprits.

 

DDW

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A practical consideration: you need to be able to get to the mizzen clew from time to time. Now on this one you may be able to unship the sprit boom to take care of that. Mine was drawn with the mizzen overhanging too far to reach. Fortunately the first couple of months were spent in a berth next to a big Bayliner, I could haul the boom to the side and climb on his foredeck. It was for sale too, but I didn't want to have to hire a crew to drive it around after me so I could use the foredeck every time I needed to deal with the mizzen clew. I took a piece of tape, leaned out as far as I could reach and stuck it to the mizzen boom, that's where we cut it off. Very scientific.

Secondary practical: one of the great utilities of a yawl's mizzen is the ability to back it. Not sure how the owner intends to sail, but providing a means to do so easily will increase it's utility. With the original placement it could be sheeted to the quarters, with the new one probably not.

 

Bob Perry

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DDW:

Don;t quite follow you on the backing. With a single point sheet I'm not sure how you would back it regardless of where the mast is stepped. What am I missing?

Back the mizz could be done by unshackling the lower mainsheet block and moving it to an outboard pad eye I don't see why sheeting it to the quarter would not work. Help!

On reaching the clew,,,hmmmm,,,,,,on the occasion when there is no large Bayliner following the boat around I guess you would have to slide the boom forward at the released clew parrels. I think that could be made to work. Considerable overhang aft seems common on lug yawls. There has to be a way of dealing with it. Ed gave me contact info for saimaker in the UK who specializes in this type of arcane rig.

Check out post #5289 on the "my Newest Project" thread. That is some serious boom overhang! That clew is in a different time zone.

 
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Jose Carumba

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Keep a "preventer" (for lack of a more proper term) rigged to the end of the mizzen boom with a coil of it on the mast. When you want to back the boat or pull the boom around to work on it just lead the line forward and pull. Run it through a snatch block on the rail and back to a cockpit winch if needed.

 
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SemiSalt

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On his Chebacco yawl, Bolger dispensed with the boomkin, and used two sheets led to the stern quarters. I think this worked OK with the sharpie-type, triangular spritsail. It doesn't need to be touched when beating, as the lazy, leeside sheet can just be left slack. A wide stern is a help. I think this sail is 20-some sq ft.

66768_4887_4026_lg_02.jpg


 

Bob Perry

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Thanks Semi. You are now the WLYDO's Chief of Lugg Rigs. Whether you like it or not.

As Ish would say, "You are the big lug."

We may go back to the boomkin. I fighting to keep the swim step. I suspect there is no outhaul. Tension on the foot is adjusted by loading the boom. Right?

 

Mr. Ed

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Thanks Semi. You are now the WLYDO's Chief of Lugg Rigs. Whether you like it or not.

As Ish would say, "You are the big lug."

We may go back to the boomkin. I fighting to keep the swim step. I suspect there is no outhaul. Tension on the foot is adjusted by loading the boom. Right?
Don't forget a way to centreline it!

 

Bob Perry

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Ed: I could do a bridle. Do you really think it will need centerlining? I don't. It's way far aft for that.

 

DDW

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As Semi said, two sheets to the stern quarters. Lets you lock the mizzen wherever you want it, and doesn't need tending while tacking (once trimmed) or gybing. Backing is something you want to do occasionally, on a cruising boat anything that wants doing occasionally but requires rigging something to do it, doesn't get done. With two sheets cleated somewhere within reach of the helm, you can turn around and back while steering (backing out of an anchorage or while anchoring is an example). This lets you trim to CL or even windward if you want to. I will occasionally trim to windward at anchor to get the boat facing into the swell or when heaving to. I never CL it beating but often do it when motorsailing or anchored. A single sheet to CL or bridle will not hold it centered well enough to be ideal an anchor.

There is only reason to need to reach the clew when something goes wrong, or routinely to get the cover on. I have needed to do so on occasion when reefing lines got wrapped or tangled while sailing. A few hundred miles offshore in some weather and something comes undone is the worry. Bayliner won't help there, it would be on the bottom.

 
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olaf hart

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It would be interesting to figure out a wishbone boom for that mizzen.

The problem I see sheeting it to the corners of the transom is the sheets have no vang effect.

With a wishbone boom, the sail is the vang.

And a wishbone also lifts the inboard end of the boom above head level.

Semi, you up for a challenge ?

 

Bob Perry

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It's nice to know I have so many brains working on this.

I was around in the 19th century but I have forgotten. I'm still struggling with DOS.

 

TwoLegged

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Thanks Semi. You are now the WLYDO's Chief of Lugg Rigs. Whether you like it or not.

As Ish would say, "You are the big lug."

We may go back to the boomkin. I fighting to keep the swim step. I suspect there is no outhaul. Tension on the foot is adjusted by loading the boom. Right?
I like boomkins. They are cute. And so is their name: we used to call ours the country bumkin, just to annoy my Dad.

I like swimsteps too, so I hope you keep this one ... but if you lose the swimstep, the compensation is that you'll add cuteness.

 

DDW

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I suspect there is no outhaul. Tension on the foot is adjusted by loading the boom. Right?
Yes, tackle is called a "snotter" traditionally I think.

Sheets to the transom corners can have a great deal of vang effect, but then you have to tend them. The sprit boom should do all that is required there, particularly if it has a bit of rake, or the tack is below the boom.

 
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