My newest project

Bob Perry

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Monson:

We chose Jim Antrim to do the engineering on this project and we have followed his specifications. I am not concerned with the structural integrity of the rudder or the transom. If I were I would have spoken up long ago as would have Jim Betts. We are far more than "observers" to this project.

Oneo f the beauties of CF in a project like this with generous displacement is that we can over build and not be concerned about adding significant weight. We have zero incentive to go light on anything.

 
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Bob Perry

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Punter: Yep, I have gone over that many times.

The short answer is that as a group we feel it is the very best material for our build. It's all advantages in many areas. Has nothing to do the the novelty of it. Not that there is nothing new about applying CF to this type of design. But that was not the determining reason.

 

Bob Perry

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Sculpin: Simply put, there will be no hull to deck joint and this is typical of almost all custom builds. It will all be bonded together with epoxy and bands of CF. I'll get photos for you during this process. The goal is a monocoque structure.

 

Mr. Ed

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I can't get over the awful lack of room for mistake in cutting the hull moulding down to size: I can just imagine my mind wandering, and the saw wandering off in sympathy. . . "Err, Mr. Betts, I'm sorry, but I think you ought to see this . . " The stuff of nightmares.

Do you understand how they do that bit?

It's got to follow the sheer line, so not just a matter of cutting it in a straight line.

And thanks for all the progress reports. Very educational and better than working.

 

alphafb552

Super Anarchist
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Fryslan boppe!
I can't get over the awful lack of room for mistake in cutting the hull moulding down to size: I can just imagine my mind wandering, and the saw wandering off in sympathy. . . "Err, Mr. Betts, I'm sorry, but I think you ought to see this . . "

...
Nah, no problem, they're going to be popping hulls off the mould for the foreseeable future, just one extra won't mean a thing! :p

 

kimbottles

Super Anarchist
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PNW
I can't get over the awful lack of room for mistake in cutting the hull moulding down to size: I can just imagine my mind wandering, and the saw wandering off in sympathy. . . "Err, Mr. Betts, I'm sorry, but I think you ought to see this . . " The stuff of nightmares.

Do you understand how they do that bit?

It's got to follow the sheer line, so not just a matter of cutting it in a straight line.

And thanks for all the progress reports. Very educational and better than working.
Well, we had to cut the hull and the deck to the right size on the Sliver Project. I think Jordan, Fred and Bruce did the cutting. Just takes your best guys to do the deed.

 

Mr. Ed

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I can't get over the awful lack of room for mistake in cutting the hull moulding down to size: I can just imagine my mind wandering, and the saw wandering off in sympathy. . . "Err, Mr. Betts, I'm sorry, but I think you ought to see this . . " The stuff of nightmares.

Do you understand how they do that bit?

It's got to follow the sheer line, so not just a matter of cutting it in a straight line.

And thanks for all the progress reports. Very educational and better than working.
Well, we had to cut the hull and the deck to the right size on the Sliver Project. I think Jordan, Fred and Bruce did the cutting. Just takes your best guys to do the deed.
I suppose, now you point it out, it must be a part of joining any hull and deck. Still scary.

 

TwoLegged

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I can't get over the awful lack of room for mistake in cutting the hull moulding down to size: I can just imagine my mind wandering, and the saw wandering off in sympathy. . . "Err, Mr. Betts, I'm sorry, but I think you ought to see this . . "

...
Nah, no problem, they're going to be popping hulls off the mould for the foreseeable future, just one extra won't mean a thing! :p
I want to be first in the queue to take the one which went wrong :D

 

silversurfer

Member
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Denmark
I never gave it any thought before but what is CF laminate like to cut?
Actually real easy. Nothing like kevlar which is a PITA. The problem with cutting carbon fibre is that it is as dangerous as asbestos. Very fine dust is created which is definitely not good for your lungs. So wear your protective devices or cut wet (or both)

 

Crash

Super Anarchist
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SoCal
OK Tuckster. I would think a pintel failure is about the last thing you would want.
I think Tucky's point is that pintle failure is preferable to ripping great honking holes in the stern, which really is the last thing you'd want.

Course, I don't know how you could, with any accuracy, calculate the failure point of the gudgeons w/o destructive testing. So you've no way to install pintles that are just short of that. So hell for stout everywhere it is.
Grumman tried fusable wing tips on the Bearcat at end of WW II. Problem was one tip always blew before the other, putting aircraft into an out of control situation...so the went back to just making them hell for stout as most airplanes from "Grumman Iron Works" are known to be...

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
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De Nile
I never gave it any thought before but what is CF laminate like to cut?
Actually real easy. Nothing like kevlar which is a PITA. The problem with cutting carbon fibre is that it is as dangerous as asbestos. Very fine dust is created which is definitely not good for your lungs. So wear your protective devices or cut wet (or both)
like any glass/resin material, it eats tools UNLESS you use the tile cutting carbide tools, which eat the material easily. It certainly dusts up very nasty.

 

Bob Perry

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I spent five hours at the Betts yard today. Most of it with Jim and the client going over small details. After three hours Jim jumped up and said, "Damn I have to go gudge me pintels!" and was gone. I was left with Neil and the client for another two hours. Much of it went into looking at light fixtures, Hell, I'm not even in favor of gay marriage. How the hell am I going to pick out a light fixture? But the client does not want to do it so with Neil's help I can get through this.

One guy at the yard I really like to watch is Andrew, very quiet and very competent Andrew, always smiling Andrew. He makes wood do his bidding. Here he is making the plug for the traveler base mold.



I think it looks quite elegant and will be a nice counterpoiunt to the boxy proporrtions of the aft trunk.



Carbon fiber uni directional strapping is going on the deck core to reinforce the high load areas. There are 18 layers through the mast partners area. If you look carefully you can see the strapping for: the chainplates, the mast partrners, the staysail track, the genoa track and the miansheet house top stand up block


Please visit my blog. It's fun to read. http://perryboat.sail2live.com/ Also please check out my new web site at www.perryboat.com it's also fun to read / We are constantly tweaking it.
 

Wash

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Long Beach, CA
Bob,

With all the carbon being used on the project, I am sure things are being isolated more than usual as part of the build process. Is there anything special being done that would not be done if the hull and deck was mainly fiberglass?

 
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Bob Perry

Super Anarchist
31,915
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Wash:

No.

Not at this stage. As far as I know.

What exactly would you have them do?

No really, exactly? I need to learn more in this area.

Help!

 

Innocent Bystander

Super Anarchist
11,749
756
Lower Southern MD
Wash:

No.

Not at this stage. As far as I know.

What exactly would you have them do?

No really, exactly? I need to learn more in this area.

Help!
Bob,
We dealt with a lot of carbon and aluminum galvanic couples in early carbon composite aircraft. Generally, you have to pay a lot of attention to material selection and isolation. Specifying non conductive sealing compounds, avoiding small metal to large composite contact areas (fasteners) and the standard things we already do with aluminum/stainless connections in using Ted-gel or the like to "insulate" the connectors.

I'm certain Jim Betts and Jim Antrim have it all under control. It's "not their first rodeo" (or yours either) on this stuff. https://www.corrosionpedia.com/2/1556/corrosion/galvanic-corrosion-of-metals-connected-to-carbon-fiber-reinforced-polymers

This site has a pretty readable discussion of the topic.

 

Mr. Ed

Super Anarchist
3,006
341
Wash:

No.

Not at this stage. As far as I know.

What exactly would you have them do?

No really, exactly? I need to learn more in this area.

Help!
Bob,
We dealt with a lot of carbon and aluminum galvanic couples in early carbon composite aircraft. Generally, you have to pay a lot of attention to material selection and isolation. Specifying non conductive sealing compounds, avoiding small metal to large composite contact areas (fasteners) and the standard things we already do with aluminum/stainless connections in using Ted-gel or the like to "insulate" the connectors.

I'm certain Jim Betts and Jim Antrim have it all under control. It's "not their first rodeo" (or yours either) on this stuff. https://www.corrosionpedia.com/2/1556/corrosion/galvanic-corrosion-of-metals-connected-to-carbon-fiber-reinforced-polymers

This site has a pretty readable discussion of the topic.
Interesting stuff. Thanks. So now you have to upgrade the hardware to titanium!

 
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