National debt

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Pete Pollard

Super Anarchist
12,184
1
No, dog did not provide an answer.

I'm still waiting for an answer, not another question. If you don't have an answer that's okay, because in the end this whole mess is a giant ponzi scheme enabled by power brokers to fatten each other's wallets.

There is no compelling economic theory behind our central banking system and our national debt. They are both arbitrary.

 
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Patriot

Super Anarchist
1,099
16
tikipete said:
Why are we paying interest on it?

Is there any compelling economic theory requiring it?
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Wow - are you really that stupid? Anyway, thanks for the good Sunday morning laugh! Best that you just shut up now, lest you continue to provide further evidence of your stupidity......nevermind, continue to hurl insults around - kinda like watching a moron wallow in his own shit.

 
W

whitehall

Anarchist
839
19
tikipete said:
Why are we paying interest on it? Is there any compelling economic theory requiring it?
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Better question: is there any compelling reason for "Tip-O-The-Hat" BullGator to change his screen name to TikiPete, change his dumbassed catch phrase from "all reasonable people agree" to the abbreviated "compelling"?

Many things in life are arbitrary, obviously including finance/econ degrees from Florida. Had you had stayed for your Masters, BG/TP, your questions would have been answered in advanced courses, including "Compelling Piggy Bank Theory For Complete Dumbasses" and the ever popular "Compelling Theory of Borrowing and Spending $4 Billion Per Day, Interest Free, Indefinitely".

Ponzi scheme? Ah...yeah, however Twubbling. Weazonable people agwee, by definition, that's what borrowing and spending money you don't have is all about. Using cuwwent cash to feed ancient debt, future money (that of our future great-grandkid's grandkids) to pay off new/cuwwent debt, all on the premise of getting a great weeturn on our "investment".

"..no compelling economic theory behind...our national debt". Seriously, Gator. By any screen name, your standup econ/comedy routine remains both idiotic and stale.

 
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Patriot

Super Anarchist
1,099
16
Hey folks, as long as we're on a roll here with such thought-provoking questions like the one posed by tikipete, I have one of my own....so tiki, if you won't mind me stealing the limelight for just a minute, I'd like to know if there's any compelling economic theory that explains why I have to pay for a six-pack of beer? Shouldn't it just be handed over to me free of charge?

 
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Pete Pollard

Super Anarchist
12,184
1
I wouldn't know, I don't drink.

But let me point out you mentioned YOUR six pack. The National debt says you will buy a six pack for 12 guys, meeting behind closed doors, whom you've never met, and are prohibited by law from joining the conversation.

The Centralized banking system and the debt it has saddled the American people with is an attack on America, the Constitution and everything we value.

Why can't you see that?

 
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Pete Pollard

Super Anarchist
12,184
1
I've never had a DUI or ridden a Vespa. Any more lies you'd care to tell?

Still waiting for an answer. Fellas, your emperor has no clothes, not a stitch.

Our central banking system was a knee jerk reaction to panic that began in 1913. It was a bad idea then and is even worse now. This "National Debt" is the smoking gun that proves it. The "National Debt" is the boogie man the FED uses to try and keep you all in line.

 
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Pete Pollard

Super Anarchist
12,184
1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Act

The Federal Reserve Act (ch. 6, 38 Stat. 251, enacted December 23, 1913, 12 U.S.C. ch.3) is the Act of Congress that created the Federal Reserve System, the central banking system of the United States of America, and granted it the legal authority to issue legal tender...

For nearly eighty years the U.S. had been without a central bank since the charter for the Second Bank of the United States was allowed to expire. After various financial panics, particularly a severe one in 1907, some Americans became convinced that their country needed some sort of banking and currency reform ...

In the election of 1912, the Democratic Party won control of the White House and both chambers of Congress. The party's platform stated strong opposition "to the so called Aldrich bill for the establishment of a central bank." However, the platform also called for a systematic revision of banking laws in ways that would provide relief from financial panics, unemployment, and business depression, and would protect the public from the "domination by what is known as the Money Trust

...the earlier opposition to the proposed reserve system from Progressive Democrats was largely assuaged; instead, opposition to the Bill came largely from the more business-friendly Republicans instead of from the Democrats

Controversy about the Federal Reserve Act and the establishment of the Federal Reserve System has existed since prior to its passage. Some of the questions raised include: whether Congress has the Constitutional power to delegate its power to coin money or issue paper money, whether the Federal Reserve is a public cartel of private banks (also called a banking cartel) established to protect powerful financial interests, and whether the Federal Reserve's actions increased the severity of the Great Depression in the 1930s (and/or the severity or frequency of other boom-bust economic cycles, such as the Late-2000s recession).

 
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Dog

Dog

Super Anarchist
37,940
444
tikipete said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Act

The Federal Reserve Act (ch. 6, 38 Stat. 251, enacted December 23, 1913, 12 U.S.C. ch.3) is the Act of Congress that created the Federal Reserve System, the central banking system of the United States of America, and granted it the legal authority to issue legal tender...

For nearly eighty years the U.S. had been without a central bank since the charter for the Second Bank of the United States was allowed to expire. After various financial panics, particularly a severe one in 1907, some Americans became convinced that their country needed some sort of banking and currency reform ...

In the election of 1912, the Democratic Party won control of the White House and both chambers of Congress. The party's platform stated strong opposition "to the so called Aldrich bill for the establishment of a central bank." However, the platform also called for a systematic revision of banking laws in ways that would provide relief from financial panics, unemployment, and business depression, and would protect the public from the "domination by what is known as the Money Trust

...the earlier opposition to the proposed reserve system from Progressive Democrats was largely assuaged; instead, opposition to the Bill came largely from the more business-friendly Republicans instead of from the Democrats

Controversy about the Federal Reserve Act and the establishment of the Federal Reserve System has existed since prior to its passage. Some of the questions raised include: whether Congress has the Constitutional power to delegate its power to coin money or issue paper money, whether the Federal Reserve is a public cartel of private banks (also called a banking cartel) established to protect powerful financial interests, and whether the Federal Reserve's actions increased the severity of the Great Depression in the 1930s (and/or the severity or frequency of other boom-bust economic cycles, such as the Late-2000s recession).
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That's all very interesting but you asked why we pay intrest on our debt.

 
Raz'r

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
63,987
6,356
De Nile
Damn Tiki - never had an econ class I take it.

Let's start with the basics.

If you had the choice of a dollar today - or a dollar in 1 year - which would you take?

Let's assume you're rational, and say "duh, the one today" - you might be dead in a year, you may win the lottery and $1 won't mean shit to you, etc.

Now - let's say you've got an extra dollar in the billfold and no immediate need - but the guy next to you needs a $1 for something - doesn't matter what. You can give it to him, assuming he's gonna pay you back - but there's a small risk he might not pay you back. So - what incentive could that borrower provide to you? I know - He'll pay you back $1.06, in a year, for the use of the $1 now.

Voila - you may now understand interest.

As to why the gov't has to pay interest - simple - they don't tax enough to pay the bills, so they need to get money somewhere. They can print it (say the Fed didn't exist) but now you're looking at inflation. Guess what - inflation is just another way to tax. Not very efficient, nor targeted, but it works.

Or - they could go to the market - ask the market how much interest they need to pay to borrow - and go that route.

That's what the treasury does.

There you go - economic theory and the reason we pay interest - all for free to you, my intelligence challenged troll.

 
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pfoley

Super Anarchist
4,069
0
tikipete said:
Why are we paying interest on it?

Is there any compelling economic theory requiring it?
Click to expand...

You're quite right.

From now on, the printing press will be used to print monopoly-style money and passed out to everybody. As much as you want.

ATM's will be reconfigured to dispense money like a laser printer, so when you need more, it just prints it out.

When you run out, you come back for more.

Should work just fine.

 
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pfoley

Super Anarchist
4,069
0
Mitch said:
Damn Tiki - never had an econ class I take it.

Let's start with the basics.

If you had the choice of a dollar today - or a dollar in 1 year - which would you take?

Let's assume you're rational, and say "duh, the one today" - you might be dead in a year, you may win the lottery and $1 won't mean shit to you, etc.

Now - let's say you've got an extra dollar in the billfold and no immediate need - but the guy next to you needs a $1 for something - doesn't matter what. You can give it to him, assuming he's gonna pay you back - but there's a small risk he might not pay you back. So - what incentive could that borrower provide to you? I know - He'll pay you back $1.06, in a year, for the use of the $1 now.

Voila - you may now understand interest.

As to why the gov't has to pay interest - simple - they don't tax enough to pay the bills, so they need to get money somewhere. They can print it (say the Fed didn't exist) but now you're looking at inflation. Guess what - inflation is just another way to tax. Not very efficient, nor targeted, but it works.

Or - they could go to the market - ask the market how much interest they need to pay to borrow - and go that route.

That's what the treasury does.

There you go - economic theory and the reason we pay interest - all for free to you, my intelligence challenged troll.
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Maybe instead of "taxing enough" they should spend less.

 
P

Pete Pollard

Super Anarchist
12,184
1
If you guys ever get a clue... Nah, that'll never happen.


 
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Yesac13

New member
45
0
tikipete said:
"Yeah...And then he throws insults around."

You don't?

I'm waiting for rational answers. But I suspect I'll be waiting quite some time. Our banking system is purely arbitrary, derives from the political clout of the banking system, has failed and can be replaced at the stoke of a pen. The only thing that keeps it in place is the financial lobby and back room influence peddling. It serves no useful purpose except to enrich bankers.
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Think this way:

You have excess money sitting around. You don't know what to do with it right away. But you know some people that could use the money and could build up say a business with it. So you loan it to these people (you trust them). These people are renting your money for a while. Interest is basically rental you charge. These people are successful and pay back the loan plus interest (rental). Both sides are happy. One side makes money with their money and one side are able to get a headstart by renting other people's money. Its a beautiful system if you think about it. Civilization depends on it for the most part.

That said, I have to say that the current system is rotten. The giant banks are an abomination. I hate the whole fucking system. And its real sad to say this much but by allowing the government to spend so much, we deserved this shitty system (we voted in the shitty politicians therefore its partly our fault!). Its up to us to break down this shitty system. Since so many Americans (and other nationalities) depend on the government for jobs, welfare, etc in both direct and indirect means... I think nobody is in a hurry to fix the system, sad to say so. The giant corporations can pay off debt faster with increasingly worthless dollars so that makes things even worse because it makes the giant banks more powerful (keep borrowing, borrowing)...

 
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