NATO - stop being so fucking timid!!!!

Burning Man

Super Anarchist
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Back to the desert
A bit of a rant here.......  While I do understand the US and NATO's position on not directly intervening in the UKR war for fear of getting into a larger war in Europe - I think NATO is being a big timid pussy for not supplying heavier weapons to the UKR armed forces so they can fight on a bit more level playing field.  Listened to a news report yesterday where NATO is still refusing to send "heavy weapons" such as armor, radar guided SAMs and Fighter jets.  I don't see how that risks a larger war anymore than giving them MANPADS or ATGMs would.  Putin is playing NATO and the US over this issue by threatening nukes.  He's not going to use nukes if we send UKR tanks or SAMs.  He's just not gonna do it for that.

So fucking call his bluff and stop the slaughter of the civilians and the razing of their cities.  The UKR military has proven MORE than capable enough to use those weapons effectively.  Give them the tools they need to fight back!

We didn't threaten Nuke war when the Russians supplied North Vietnam with advanced fighters jets like the MIG-21 or with the most up to date SAM systems that started whacking the fuck out of our airplanes.  In some many cases, Russian "advisors" were flying those jets and directly running those SAMs.  They were directly responsible for a LOT of US lives lost there - so fuck them.  A little bit of payback would not cause me to shed a tear while we help a worthy ally.

/rant

 

Rain Man

Super Anarchist
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Wet coast.
Yup, the West needs to step up, and soon.  Anti-ship missiles for Odesa and anywhere else they can be launched against the ships in the Black Sea.  Cruise missiles to target military infrastructure in the Donbas, take out the Kerch bridge, and obliterate the roads, airports and rail lines connecting Russia to the Donbas.  There is no reason at all why those things can't be supplied.  Roll those Mig-29's across the border if need be. 

It might be time to remove all Russian soldiers and military from Transnistria and Kaliningrad too.  

 
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Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,308
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Eastern NC
A bit of a rant here.......  While I do understand the US and NATO's position on not directly intervening in the UKR war for fear of getting into a larger war in Europe - I think NATO is being a big timid pussy for not supplying heavier weapons to the UKR armed forces so they can fight on a bit more level playing field.  Listened to a news report yesterday where NATO is still refusing to send "heavy weapons" such as armor, radar guided SAMs and Fighter jets.  I don't see how that risks a larger war anymore than giving them MANPADS or ATGMs would.  Putin is playing NATO and the US over this issue by threatening nukes.  He's not going to use nukes if we send UKR tanks or SAMs.  He's just not gonna do it for that.

So fucking call his bluff and stop the slaughter of the civilians and the razing of their cities.  The UKR military has proven MORE than capable enough to use those weapons effectively.  Give them the tools they need to fight back!

We didn't threaten Nuke war when the Russians supplied North Vietnam with advanced fighters jets like the MIG-21 or with the most up to date SAM systems that started whacking the fuck out of our airplanes.  In some many cases, Russian "advisors" were flying those jets and directly running those SAMs.  They were directly responsible for a LOT of US lives lost there - so fuck them.  A little bit of payback would not cause me to shed a tear while we help a worthy ally.

/rant
It's tough being the good guy

- DSK

 

Burning Man

Super Anarchist
10,605
2,103
Back to the desert
Yup, the West needs to step up, and soon.  Anti-ship missiles for Odesa and anywhere else they can be launched against the ships in the Black Sea.  Cruise missiles to target military infrastructure in the Donbas, take out the Kerch bridge, and obliterate the roads, airports and rail lines connecting Russia to the Donbas.  There is no reason at all why those things can't be supplied.  Roll those Mig-29's across the border if need be. 

It might be time to remove all Russian soldiers and military from Transnistria and Kaliningrad too.  
If nothing else, I would give them artillery and rockets, so that can counter-battery the fucks who are shelling Mariupol.  

 

Monkey

Super Anarchist
10,892
2,513
A bit of a rant here.......  While I do understand the US and NATO's position on not directly intervening in the UKR war for fear of getting into a larger war in Europe - I think NATO is being a big timid pussy for not supplying heavier weapons to the UKR armed forces so they can fight on a bit more level playing field.  Listened to a news report yesterday where NATO is still refusing to send "heavy weapons" such as armor, radar guided SAMs and Fighter jets.  I don't see how that risks a larger war anymore than giving them MANPADS or ATGMs would.  Putin is playing NATO and the US over this issue by threatening nukes.  He's not going to use nukes if we send UKR tanks or SAMs.  He's just not gonna do it for that.

So fucking call his bluff and stop the slaughter of the civilians and the razing of their cities.  The UKR military has proven MORE than capable enough to use those weapons effectively.  Give them the tools they need to fight back!

We didn't threaten Nuke war when the Russians supplied North Vietnam with advanced fighters jets like the MIG-21 or with the most up to date SAM systems that started whacking the fuck out of our airplanes.  In some many cases, Russian "advisors" were flying those jets and directly running those SAMs.  They were directly responsible for a LOT of US lives lost there - so fuck them.  A little bit of payback would not cause me to shed a tear while we help a worthy ally.

/rant
I agree with you, but there’s a few hang ups. I was chatting with my cousin who spent most of his career driving tanks. We can’t just hand over a bunch of M1’s and expect them to drive them. It’s no different than asking you to fly a MIG. I have no doubt you could, but you probably wouldn’t be very effective in combat. 

 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,308
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Eastern NC
I agree with you, but there’s a few hang ups. I was chatting with my cousin who spent most of his career driving tanks. We can’t just hand over a bunch of M1’s and expect them to drive them. It’s no different than asking you to fly a MIG. I have no doubt you could, but you probably wouldn’t be very effective in combat. 
It may be easier for almost any pilot to learn to fly a MIG than for a tanker trained on T80 to switch over to an M1.

- DSK

 

Mark K

Super Anarchist
47,621
1,860
If nothing else, I would give them artillery and rockets, so that can counter-battery the fucks who are shelling Mariupol.  
Heavy artillery fire bases are sitting ducks, gives the Russian military the sort of target they really wish the Ukrainians would present. Not going to outnumber Russian artillery next door to Russia. This is an infantry company leader's war.  

 

Ishmael

52,549
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Fuctifino
Ukraine needs last-generation SAMs to protect their airspace, more planes, maybe some old pilots can pool their money, get together and buy some surplus F16s...

 

mikewof

mikewof
45,639
1,210
Give them the tools they need to fight back!
You think that NATO isn't doing enough, others worry that NATO is working too much already out of scope. But so far, there is no global thermonuclear war, so I think NATO is doing fine by erring on the side of caution. When it comes to escalation, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." -- George Santayana.

 
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phillysailor

Super Anarchist
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Could the Starstreak MANPAD be employed as an anti-ship missile?

Three tungsten darts traveling Mach 3-4 might punch quite a hole in a ship, especially if at a downward angle.

Havent been too impressed by Ruskie training, so the flooding might be catastrophic.

 
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Mrleft8

Super Anarchist
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Suwanee River
I wouldn't trust Putin to not use nukes under any circumstances at this point.

The man is as unhinged as our last loser guy, but with more access to potentially globally devastating options.

I think one of our alphabet agencies ought to give him a time out.... Maybe permanently, maybe just until he takes a nap and wakes up refreshed.

 

Mark K

Super Anarchist
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Ukraine needs last-generation SAMs to protect their airspace, more planes, maybe some old pilots can pool their money, get together and buy some surplus F16s...
Something like this? 

Flying_Tigers_personnel.jpg


Don't see why not. Surely there's a lot of aged or semi-aged fighter jocks who would volunteer in the EU. The planes could then be Western designs, drawn from NATO member states reserves and "lend leased" to Ukraine. 

 
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Olsonist

Disgusting Liberal Elitist
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Could the Starstrwao MANPAD be a an anti-ship missile?

Three tungsten darts traveling Mach 3-4 might punch quite a hole in a ship, especially if at a downward angle.

Havent been too impressed by Ruskie training, so the flooding might be catastrophic.
I think that is probably breaking a few laws of physics if it's going to accelerate up to (1) Mach 3-4 at (2) short range and then also (3) dive down. Maybe pick 2 out of those 3 and be happy.  It also just doesn't have much range, 7 km. Good for transport landing craft though.

I know that it's an escalation but we did No Fly Zones in Bosnia (thank you, Bill!) and in Libya (thank you, Hillary!). You can ask Milošević or Muammar about them but you might find it a one sided conversation.

 
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Ishmael

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Something like this? 



Don't see why not. Surely there's a lot of aged or semi-aged fighter jocks who would volunteer in the EU. The planes could then be Western designs, drawn from NATO member states reserves and "lend leased" to Ukraine. 
You'd need maintenance teams and a bunch of other stuff that would take a while to put together, but a Flying Tiger No-Fly Zone would be a damn fine thing to see.

 

Mark K

Super Anarchist
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You'd need maintenance teams and a bunch of other stuff that would take a while to put together, but a Flying Tiger No-Fly Zone would be a damn fine thing to see.
Might take a month or two, but this is shaping up to be a long-term conflict. It appears the Russians are digging in in the east and it's hard to imagine the Ukrainians conceding that much territory. 

 




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