New 45' - water ballast Y/N?
- Thread starter Alex_
- Start date
some images of the Open 30 water ballast system, based on IMOCA (6inch drop tube) and Figaro systems
lift pump was non self priming, the sofo scoops filled either tanks directly or via lift (non self priming) pump swirl chamber,
all controls were led to deck to hand of the helm
lift pump was non self priming, the sofo scoops filled either tanks directly or via lift (non self priming) pump swirl chamber,
all controls were led to deck to hand of the helm
Rantifarian
Rantifarian
If I understand correctly:
Big big transfer pipe, 150mm?
Scoops feed into the centre section of the transfer pipe between gate valves.
Pump suction comes from same section of tube.
Pump pressure side goes straight to tanks, gate valve for each.
It looks like there is a third line out of the pump, is that a pump to sea? Or fill from the scoop. I would have thought scoop like would be better plumbed to the centre of the transfer pipe, so you can use the pump to lift the water to the tank of required?
I don't know what the marin industrie valve is in the second last shot. Is that the scoop valve?
Are the scoops a purchasable item, or a custom job?
Sorry for all of the questions, I'm about to start racing an 11m boat with 350l of water ballast a side, with a pretty basic setup. The more good ideas I can pinch here the less time I have to spend gluing PVC pipes inside a cramped hull
Big big transfer pipe, 150mm?
Scoops feed into the centre section of the transfer pipe between gate valves.
Pump suction comes from same section of tube.
Pump pressure side goes straight to tanks, gate valve for each.
It looks like there is a third line out of the pump, is that a pump to sea? Or fill from the scoop. I would have thought scoop like would be better plumbed to the centre of the transfer pipe, so you can use the pump to lift the water to the tank of required?
I don't know what the marin industrie valve is in the second last shot. Is that the scoop valve?
Are the scoops a purchasable item, or a custom job?
Sorry for all of the questions, I'm about to start racing an 11m boat with 350l of water ballast a side, with a pretty basic setup. The more good ideas I can pinch here the less time I have to spend gluing PVC pipes inside a cramped hull
yes 6inches - Valtero valves ; total overkill 3 or 4 is fine for most boats (
yes
correct,as it is not self priming
correct pump lifts water via 2inch pipes into tanks, the 6'inch pipe is for dumping under gravity (Solent UK waters means there is need for lots of fast tacking hence the 6inch pipes)
the pump is 12v Rule 220lires/48gallon/min pump - when filled, the 2inch tanks blow holes would spu out a 18inch high fountain!
the third allows the pimp to lift from leeward to windward OR over the side (allowing for worst case scenarios) via a Y valve
yes Marin is french company who manufacture Sofo scoops, we had 2 one port ; one stb and opened which ever one was on leeward, can rotate the inlet from 'scoop' to drain - so can lift/fill or dump via the scoop, they pull in/retarct when not in use. the were 2in scoops
we have 5inch dia custom scoops on Pegasus (open50) which lift and dump the fore/aft trim tanks
a good basic set up is that used on the Figaro Mk1s - i used that on a Beneteau First class8 that i water ballasted for the 2H RB&I race in 1992
single (we used manual) pump with Y valve to port/stb, pipe port - stb for dump windard-leeward contolled by a single valve and T piece with a valve to allow drain out
Rantifarian
Rantifarian
Thanks, very helpful!
Is anyone just using fresh water and a watermaker and their regular water tanks? Then all you need is the transfer pipes and bigger vents.
Then you start the race with either one tank full from the dock or empty.
I appreciate that this isn't suitable for short tacking.
Then you start the race with either one tank full from the dock or empty.
I appreciate that this isn't suitable for short tacking.
Foolish
Super Anarchist
How often do you use the pump? I assume you always try to use gravity.
Zonk,
Thanks for your help. For (say) 360 kg of ballast with 2.0 m tank length, we would end up with a tank 'beam ' of less than 0.20 m - which of course means that the water is way more effiicient than the same mass of hiked crew!
Will now do some work with an NA here, probably looking at two tanks each side, 240 in front and 120 behind....
BTW, the family of parametrically similar designs was:
Design 277 - IMS with in-line rig and overlappers
Design 336 - Cookson with carbon mast and nice CR interior, no overlapping jibs
Design 374 - Farr 40, with narrower waterline beam and more sail, optimised for less than 10 knots
The IMS boat had a ballast ratio of around 52% with a tin rig.
Thanks for your help. For (say) 360 kg of ballast with 2.0 m tank length, we would end up with a tank 'beam ' of less than 0.20 m - which of course means that the water is way more effiicient than the same mass of hiked crew!
Will now do some work with an NA here, probably looking at two tanks each side, 240 in front and 120 behind....
BTW, the family of parametrically similar designs was:
Design 277 - IMS with in-line rig and overlappers
Design 336 - Cookson with carbon mast and nice CR interior, no overlapping jibs
Design 374 - Farr 40, with narrower waterline beam and more sail, optimised for less than 10 knots
The IMS boat had a ballast ratio of around 52% with a tin rig.
Foolish
Super Anarchist
Can't you scoop in to the leward tank on a beat? How long does it take for the pump to fill the tank?
Foolish
Super Anarchist
Would you want to be drinking water that has been sloshing back and forth inside fibreglass and plastic tubes?
Foolish
Super Anarchist
Just during the scoop and fill process, before the race starts.
I believe last year's second place R2AK boat uses an external ballast system to good effect? They were a Soverel 33, so significantly less waterline and much much lighter than any cruising 45 footer, but seems like a relatively simple solution that has the added benefit of keeping the ballast outside of the boat's interior. It's not particularly handsome, though.
Kenny Dumas
Super Anarchist
Inflatable kayaks are pretty useful. Fill with water and lash on rail for dual use?
The OP was talking performance cruising, not racing.
On long cruising passages it is normal to strategically fill and use tanks. It is easy to control the flow of the watermaker to the required tank.
But we are talking multi-day passages and ocean crossings where these tactics become anywhere near worthwhile.
If one is doing lots of upwind work and tacking, needing to transfer water often while "performance cruising" they need a new weather router.
There is no reason why there couldn't be a system to move water and fuel, other than space limitations, complexity, cost, and maintenance. All big trade offs when you add the word cruising to performance.
[email protected]
Super Anarchist
Pushing the limits of relevance, but in the days before widespread internet use, I recall reading - perhaps in "Yachting World" - about passage making in a relatively small cruiser. To improve righting moment they set a 25ish litre plastic container of drinking water off the end of their spinnaker pole to windward - said it made a significant difference.
Congrats they have invented the proa (sort of)
Say a 9m cruiser with a 3.5m pole. 27 kg (a few kg for the pole) @ 3.5m from center = 94.5 kg.m
A 9m cruiser might have a beam of 3m and a 1/2 beam=1.5m. So a typical 85 kg person sitting on the rail @ 1.5 = 127.5 kg.m
So less than 1 person on the rail? On a smaller boat with less beam it might make more sense.
Say a 9m cruiser with a 3.5m pole. 27 kg (a few kg for the pole) @ 3.5m from center = 94.5 kg.m
A 9m cruiser might have a beam of 3m and a 1/2 beam=1.5m. So a typical 85 kg person sitting on the rail @ 1.5 = 127.5 kg.m
So less than 1 person on the rail? On a smaller boat with less beam it might make more sense.
sailcalifornia
Member
- 52
- 3
Is this your boat?
2007 Custom Moondance Open 30 Racer for sale - YachtWorld
Find more information and images about the boat and contact the seller or search more boats for sale on YachtWorld.
www.yachtworld.com
yep that's herIs this your boat?
2007 Custom Moondance Open 30 Racer for sale - YachtWorld
Find more information and images about the boat and contact the seller or search more boats for sale on YachtWorld.
you can see lots of early Pete (eldest son, HB7 designer and currently IMOCA tech/design guru for hire) innovation and design detail
