New Beneteau First 36

NitrousVic

New member
21
14
Greece
Looks like the new First 36 will have the GARMIN Navigation & Electronics... (as extra option)

2x GMI 20 (4" display), Airmar DST810, gWind, 3x GNX 120 (under the boom), VHF 215i + GHS 11i, AIS 800, GA 38 

and as autopilot option...

Reactor 40, Class B hydraulic Drive unit, GHC 4" display, remote control.

What is your opinion or experience in a good performance navigation system?

B&G, NKE or Raymarine perform better?

 

Snowden

Super Anarchist
1,099
580
UK
What is your opinion or experience in a good performance navigation system? B&G, NKE or Raymarine perform better?
Random thoughts

Garmin GNX displays are good, not as good as B&G Nemesis which is in a different cost bracket but has the killer app that you can play YouTube videos on the mast. GNX120 can display custom N2K PGNs from Expedition, which makes up for lack of functionality in the system itself (much of the functionality and calibration-ability that the Garmin kit had when it was Nexus branded has been lost).

The Airmar DST810 gets a bad rep (on here at least). The Garmin GST43 (a rebranded Nexus analogue unit) is better although the usual latency issue means that true wind from N2K xducers is of limited utility.

gWind is the stubby MHU that sits right in the shit of your masthead kite. gWind Race is a vertical MHU that's half the price of the B&G unit but suffers from N2K & calibration issues per above.

Something with a processor and analogue xducers like NKE or B&G H5000 is always going to give you better TWA etc if you invest the time to set it up properly, and has built-in polar support. If you aren't going to do that you might as well buy Garmin or Raymarine as you won't unlock the benefits of a more expensive system. I get the sense that NKE is a pain to integrate with other kit unless what you want to do can be done with NMEA 0183 off the Topline bus.

No experience with the Reactor 40 pilot but I think this is a system originally designed for fishing boats and I would not expect it to perform as well as Raymarine or Simrad, let alone B&G or NKE.

 
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DingDong

New member
18
10
UK
We ran Garmin on our Bene First 40 - very, very impressed with superb UK service and support. Despite having legacy kit mixed with new stuff the tech guys were incredibly helpful and response times were rapid.

I suspect that the hydraulic drive may be overkill. Our linear drive stood up to last year’s Fastnet with no problems despite being pushed very hard. (Couldn’t helm all the time as DH). Garmin had felt it would be marginal and so we looked at hydraulic but it required too much additional work to install. In the event all went well with no ‘trip outs’ at all.

AP was fine running to TWA but we were using a basic MHU on the NMEA network so no need for signal conversion.

 

NitrousVic

New member
21
14
Greece
Many thanks @Snowden & @Ding Dong as this info is very helpful in deciding a good navigation system. 

Many thanks also to @JL92S as I didn't know that an electronic extenable tiller bar existed, to calibrate "toe" in twin rudders. 

Yes, the First 36 is expected to be a fast boat, and we definetely need a good navigation system to accompany it accordingly.

Many thanks to @Kristian Seascape for all the technical insights that help us truly understand this fantastic boat, how to take good care of it and also help me a lot set up my First 36 as it truly deserves.

The official live launch of the boat was scheduled in January, at the BOOT 2022(cancelled).

Personally I am at the edge of my seat... 

 

cianclarke

Member
106
78
Boston, MA
I'm a huge fan of the Garmin GNX series - so much that I've bought three. The Garmin GMI, not so much. 
The GNX analog display combined with trend graph is the best I've come across (although I haven't gotten to play with the new NKE stuff)

What baffles me is the trend towards fully backlit displays, where even black is blinding.
The GNX is a great analog (or analog imitation? unsure)

Meanwhile, even in night mode, my Raymarine AP head unit manages to be both simultaneously invisible during daylight hours, and night-vision-ruining blinding at nighttime. 

Night vision capability + actual NMEA connectors making me really like Garmin of late. 

 
213
236
We are under strict orders form higher authority not to post any outside picture or they will cut of my balls, but I guess this is technically not "outside picture" because we are still inside. I wonder who was the idiot that measured the doors before we started design process?!?
fukindoors (2).jpg

 

Matagi

Ambassador of the Republic of R'lyeh
We are under strict orders form higher authority not to post any outside picture or they will cut of my balls, but I guess this is technically not "outside picture" because we are still inside. I wonder who was the idiot that measured the doors before we started design process?!?
View attachment 489511
Probably Jeff Bezos.

Boat looks good, though. 'thumbsupemoji'

One ball left. 

 

shaggybaxter

Super Anarchist
4,508
2,550
Australia
We are under strict orders form higher authority not to post any outside picture or they will cut of my balls, but I guess this is technically not "outside picture" because we are still inside. I wonder who was the idiot that measured the doors before we started design process?!?
View attachment 489511
Hmmm....now if you asked me if I would be ever tempted into buying one of these fat arsed girls.....

IMG_0108_zps9cg2vwdddd.jpg

I'm weak. I admit it. 

 

svein99

Member
308
6
We are under strict orders form higher authority not to post any outside picture or they will cut of my balls, but I guess this is technically not "outside picture" because we are still inside. I wonder who was the idiot that measured the doors before we started design process?!?
View attachment 489511
I see you have installed 2 ghetto blasters in the back - is it to intimidate the opposition?

 
Buyer beware. I hope if you buy one Seascape  are quick and efficient in solving any inevitable issues. Nine months in I am still waiting for issues to be fixed on my First 27 including a water leak  and repayment made for a furler I paid for and they did not fit.  (See Fix-it Anarchy for posts on this issue) I am assured all will be well by April but I will be very pleasantly surprised given the past performance of the team.  From  my experience  I think it would be best to avoid an early purchase as the early ones are effectively a near prototype and they are unable to offer quick and efficient support.  The First 36 will be a much more complex boat than the First 27 so I hope the team have raised their game following my unfortunate experience. 

 
Give the trouble with your First 27 and the botched “fixes” and general b.s. you put up with, I’d say that you post was both mild and well deserved.  Buyer beware.

 
I am sure the First 36 will be a great sailboat as is the First 27. Its such a shame they let themselves down with the bumbling support. It's SO frustrating that a  good product is being undermined 

 

parey

New member
9
1
france
Espérons que Bénéteau qui ne communique toujours pas sur le bateau( les glands !), va nous servir une vidéo de "Whaou" dans la brise aussi sympa que celles du chantier Saffier....

 
I don’t want to come across as bitter and twisted…but I am …tee hee. 
Don’t forget the Bene 20 twentieth year anniversary celebration model not fit for purpose and a signed contract not honoured with no apology or explanation. 

Buyer be very aware.   

 
213
236
Buyer beware. I hope if you buy one Seascape  are quick and efficient in solving any inevitable issues. Nine months in I am still waiting for issues to be fixed on my First 27...
Not trying to hide from the case, but we have discussed this several times. Simply put, all Firsts up to and including 36 are sold through the Beneteau dealers network only.  We sell it to the dealer, he sells it to you. This way Beneteau network takes over  commissioning of the boat and after-sales in the same way like they do for any other product in their range. Simply put, the dealer gets the commission and has to support the customer especially in a far away location from the yard (same for US, Australia, China, etc).
In this case we  = Beneteau Asia Pacific area manager, APAC aftersales manager and aftersales responsible from Seascape are working together and being in the contact with the dealer to sort this mess up, but the boat being in China it obviously has some specifics. As said before, the second boat left in the same week to US with identical issues, but due to the experienced and competent dealer it was a non issue. Boat was sorted out during commissioning and we did not even get a notification (we learned this latter).
Sure, owner has the right to post whatever he wants, and this being Sailing Anarchy, I would not expect anything less, but will this help his case, apart from feeling better? Sorry, but no.  Will it cause some less sales? Given the state of economy and market demand, with boats booked for a year in advance, sorry but I do not think so.

To end on a good note, we sailed the 36 yesterday in the first strong  wind conditions, 18-24kts of wind. As we did not wanted to load her too much too fast, we sailed only with jib and 1st reef. Reaching with two sails, boat sat nicely between 11 and 13 kts with bit over 14 as a max speed. Latter we learned it had 200liters of water in the tanks and 80kg of anchor chain as they were testing the systems, so yes, the boat is planning nicely ...
 

 




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