New Beneteau First 36

inneedofadvice

Super Anarchist
1,495
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Sarnia
While I'm sure dealing within China is difficult, I believe this issue has or is about to have a birthday. Seems like it should have been resolved by now. And the tone of Quindaosog has been more that accommodating throughout.

 

shaggybaxter

Super Anarchist
4,508
2,550
Australia
All these theories about how the dealer / manufacturer relationship should work are certainly noble and probably correct, but I would suggest that those that have not tried to do business in Mainland China as a foreign entity should cut Bene / Seascape some slack.
Readily admit I have not for a few years now, but prior to that yes, the whole 50% partnership thing and that was with a European vendor managed from Oz. To be honest it was no worse or better than  working in the Middle East, Sth America or West Africa, each place has their own nuance. 

 

PurpleOnion

Anarchist
869
308
New York, NY
Readily admit I have not for a few years now, but prior to that yes, the whole 50% partnership thing and that was with a European vendor managed from Oz. To be honest it was no worse or better than  working in the Middle East, Sth America or West Africa, each place has their own nuance. 
Add to this the "fun" of being a small, flexible, free running startup that dealt with issues directly and which was recently bought/merged/whatever into a giant corporation with process, procedure, and politics. Things that may have been resolved by sending someone out with a credit card, suitcase, and some duct tape now requires 15 approvals, 8 departments, 62 meetings, 435 emails, etc.

Unpleasant for all involved - yet one of the unhappy participants in this circle of pain is paying while the others are playing their corporate games.

I have never seen a small company with active customers deliver the same or better service after being acquired.

Ok. I've depressed myself. Time to find some ice cubes and a bottle of dark rye.

 

JL92S

Super Anarchist
1,779
427
UK
In happier news here’s the new one (not my photos)  925729D7-D4F5-4E7D-9058-CF9D670DA2C0.jpeg 5DB17660-9F15-4093-B2E1-C8AB41D7C4B0.jpeg

 

Parma

Super Anarchist
2,990
396
here
I can't imagine anyone keeping a cockpit table. The boat is probably better off with a cockpit sole foot brace.

 

cms

Super Anarchist
Seascape and their dealers did a great job and clients were happy. Got swallowed by big B, most of whose dealers were not interested in the ex Seascape product and marketing strategy, so things went west. No direct link from builder through enthusiastic dealer to client. Yes, a fuck up on a number of fronts, but not Kristian's fault. Let's bitch about the fuck ups, but encourage Kristian for what he is sharing with us here.

Please.

Oh, and a number of Seascape dealers got shafted along the way ... Diametrically different business models that were never integrated. Sadly I know of other unhappy buyers of First 24/27 who got shit treatment from big B dealers.

 

oioi

Super Anarchist
1,073
87
Seascape and their dealers did a great job and clients were happy. Got swallowed by big B, most of whose dealers were not interested in the ex Seascape product and marketing strategy, so things went west. No direct link from builder through enthusiastic dealer to client. Yes, a fuck up on a number of fronts, but not Kristian's fault. Let's bitch about the fuck ups, but encourage Kristian for what he is sharing with us here.

Please.

Oh, and a number of Seascape dealers got shafted along the way ... Diametrically different business models that were never integrated. Sadly I know of other unhappy buyers of First 24/27 who got shit treatment from big B dealers.
I'm a big fan of the product and  still lust after the 27. I think what the seascape team have achieved is awesome.

But your post ignores the fact that seascape sold upto the big B, it wasn't swallowed. That was their choice. They could have remained a small indy.  They (probably) made some money from the deal. 

 

Matagi

Ambassador of the Republic of R'lyeh
Time and again:

Seascape is not longer an integral part of Beneteau Group. Both split financially pretty quickly again, and -in my view- in very discrete ways.

Beneteau is apparently only major shareholder nowadays and provides access to its dealer Networks.

 

shaggybaxter

Super Anarchist
4,508
2,550
Australia
wait. didn't you buy your boat straight from the factory? lol. 
Yep. Everyone told me I was mad going for a vendor without local support and I had no issues, go figure.

My point is the model to market is dictated by the vendor, not the customer. Mine was direct to the factory, SS is currently thru dealers. The vendor will have to live or die based on that choice.
Irrespective of which model you run with, you shouldnt get to make any failing of the model you chose as a customer issue.

if the customer chose some random entity outside of the vendor choice to handle his pride and joy, then it’s flipped, everything should become the customer issue as he chose that route. 

 

 
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shaggybaxter

Super Anarchist
4,508
2,550
Australia
To be fair I should add a caveat to my above. I paid for the flights for a commissioning tech and his girl from Structures to come out and help put the boat together after the transport, he paid his accomodation and they took the opportunity to go for a weeks holiday afterwards. This worked so well Structures were talking about pushing it as a service as it certainly helped with having a fault free experience. 

 
213
236
Looking at the weather and stern-to mooring arrangements I suspect this one is in ORC land, so probably OK?
It has been lots of posts but I was simply too busy with work to follow... Where to start? BNT want to do  "proper" (corporate) communication in March when the hull #2 is launched. So they were specific not to post anything and even that joke post about the boat leaving the yard got a 7.am. call next day from the BNT. And now when anybody with a phone can snap pictures and post them online I am surprised it took a week before the boat was posted online by a passing-by person who recognized her. He posted the photos on the blog but then the fun started ... eventually they caved in and removed the pictures, but too late. They are on SA already.

Boat is in Izola, Slovenia. It is winter time here, but today you have nice 10°C and wing gusting to 18kts, so it will be a nice sailing day to test some flying sails. This boat has cockpit table to see how it works, but is removable, only attachments on the cockpit floor remains. Sure it is a cruisy feature, but it is an obligatory feature for cruising. Just like removable cockpit benches that are currently still in the works.
IRC - we applied for preliminary design certificate but for some unknown reason they used LOA instead WL, as boat has quite some overhangs, so in effect we paid the taxes twice. Plus there is no optimization magic that comes with the IRC like magic toolboxes, wet halyards and rainy day measurements but the preliminary rating is not terrible, rather a good start.  As I said somewhere above, it should have same or up to 2% higher rating than SF3600. Off course it has T keel, we've been over that already. We measured her for the ORC as well, but haven't got the numbers yet.

For the CHN aftersale issue, it it really a bad mojo and was my bad judgement to poke into that. No matter how good intentions you have it will just provoke people more.
When you have the claim like wrinkled mast wrap, the dealer makes the claim, within the next week(s) we get it through the aftersales system and agree whether it is OK and how much $ for work and material we refund. There are standard rates, so it is part of the system. Then it will take some time for all the wheels of the machine to turn, but it is due process and the dealer gets the return.
Probably it is of little consolation to owner that Seascape refunded his furler a while ago and are pressuring the dealer to give the invoice for the work hours and material  to be refunded as well, but he hasn't even attended last couple of scheduled meetings.
We even offered to send a team to CHN to fix the boat but were refused. And this is exactly what we are going to do with a boat in Canada (after the winter ends)  which has needs gelcoat repairs in the antiskid which the dealer is not comfortable of doing. It is our error and we will fix it, but the difference is in the cooperative dealer.

 

Snowden

Super Anarchist
1,099
580
UK
Readily admit I have not for a few years now, but prior to that yes, the whole 50% partnership thing and that was with a European vendor managed from Oz. To be honest it was no worse or better than  working in the Middle East, Sth America or West Africa, each place has their own nuance. 
I think it's fair to say it's got much harder - travel restrictions and a generally less friendly climate. If it can happen to ARM (a $60+ bn company) it can happen to a boatbuilder!

Wu remains the joint venture’s legal representative and holds its “chop” — or company seal, through which official documents are authorised — making it difficult to dislodge him under a centuries-old Chinese system. He at one point hired a security team to deny Arm representatives entry to their Shanghai offices and installed an email filtering system to block headquarters’ messages.

https://www.ft.com/content/8494d5f3-4f3e-4a1d-878d-cabb82e37778

 




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