New Beneteau First 36
- Thread starter Swimsailor
- Start date
Matagi
Super Antichrist
floater
Super Duper Anarchist
what do you think of that profile?
I guess it really is something distinct.
I guess it really is something distinct.
floater
Super Duper Anarchist
clicky, clicky? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejiBsOiq1wwPerhaps someone was quick enough to download it, and would be kind enough to share privately?
but my thought. perhaps it was just too dark and stormy out when they filmed it? and of course - no beauties on board - just a pack of grizzled deck monkey's. sorry seascape. lol.
wait. you can do that? I mean that would be like learning how to drive both on the right. and the left.
as for price. just wait until you see her sailing. - she schoons. so I think it may be true that if you can get the co-captain to love this one at the dock. then seascape might have something here.
which brings us back to the video.. just a bunch of deck apes testing their wet boat on a wet sea (and yeah - not quite the factory sails yet either). but maybe look for more sunshine and gleaming countertops on screen when you see this thing sailing next.
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Unfortunately the linked youtube video is unavailable, it says it's a private video.
There is no doubt in my mind seascape have something here. I have been fully convinced about that since I first heard about the boat, and it looks really promising. It's just a pity they kill it with the price. I read somewhere they said with this boat they bring fast and fun sailing to everyone. Unfortunately that could not be more false, with the price they set.
A stripped down 36-footer with a higher base price than a luxurious 40-footer. Sorry, as much as I like the First 36, I just don't believe it will be very successful in terms of sales, with that price tag.
And, yes, no problem, I swap between boats with tillers and wheels without any problem. It quickly gets into your back bone
I only made a mistake once, the first time I sailed a boat with wheels. I almost ran a whitbread boat straight into a ferry :lol: but it was quickly sorted and after that both things works like a charm.
There is no doubt in my mind seascape have something here. I have been fully convinced about that since I first heard about the boat, and it looks really promising. It's just a pity they kill it with the price. I read somewhere they said with this boat they bring fast and fun sailing to everyone. Unfortunately that could not be more false, with the price they set.
A stripped down 36-footer with a higher base price than a luxurious 40-footer. Sorry, as much as I like the First 36, I just don't believe it will be very successful in terms of sales, with that price tag.
And, yes, no problem, I swap between boats with tillers and wheels without any problem. It quickly gets into your back bone
I only made a mistake once, the first time I sailed a boat with wheels. I almost ran a whitbread boat straight into a ferry :lol: but it was quickly sorted and after that both things works like a charm.
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Matagi
Super Antichrist
Frankly... I think it is anything but.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy this new design coming together, but I think it doesn't excite me as much as you (and that's ok
) .What I like are the promising performance figures and I think Sam Manuard really nailed that here, as far as can be seen by now. It's not as revolutionary as some think (the A35 and the X35 weigh less and these are 15 year old designs), but the overall package with wide stern and very powerful sail plan sets the First apart from much of the competition.
In terms of lines, I think Lorenzo Argento came up with a rather dull design, especially if you compare it to what he did with Brenta or Y Yachts.
But that is ok, too. Anybody can come up with something controversial and call it art. Coming up with a very clean design -Bauhaus-style- that stands the test of time is true masterclass. So we will see in some years, if it was not a very clever move to 'tone it down a bit'. (Mind you: I drive a Waarschip and have a knack for somewhat quirky design ideas...)
Pricewise, I think the current inflationary situation will give this boat and possibly the yard a hard time. As far as I have read, at least 10 or 11 boats were sold just from the drawing board, but I suspect that was for 2021 prices.
So the last of this batch get delivered end 2022 at best and will incur end 2022 raw material prices. Plus transportation costs going through the roof. I think the market will be much tougher than the last two years.
Overall, I think this is the boat X-Yachts should have done to gain back the 'sport' territory. But they are going somewhere else, it seems.
It's good she's finally here. I would love for one of the large magazines to put her against the SF 3600 and the Pogo. I'm also looking forward to the first races to confirm what the pictures are promising.
floater
Super Duper Anarchist
but, but, but. the sliding sink in the head? lol.
I guess it makes a difference whether viewing it as primarily racer - or cruiser. it doesn't seem likely to stomp a pogo. and it's also (ostensibly) not just a race boat - like the SF3600.
lots of people here seem to think racer. and I guess you'd have to be a bit of a nut to buy one of these without intention to race it. but I'm still leaning into the idea of throw pillows and dinner parties in the saloon to sell the thing..
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Kristian Seascape
Member
- 224
- 293
Gents,
there is a lot of topics to address, so I'll try to generally cover them. If you want something specific, let me know.
Shapes&styling - we did not want to do something fashionable, because that shape will usually go out of style in a few years. Plus the boat must visually follow the brand styling that started with First 53. Modern classic they say. Some would say it is kind of boring but in the real life she has some style and looks good from different angles.
Conceptually this is a First, so it has to be performance cruiser. Habitable interior is just as important for majority of the potential Beneteau buyers that performance. It was our desire to push the performance to the level that can offer something different than competition. I think Sam, Pure and Seascape did a good job making the boat that looks like Beneteau but offers completely new sensations under sails - for performance cruisers that is. We never intended to attack Pogo, on the contrary, it was an inspiration what can be achieved and we looked at it as a performance benchmark. Obviously we cannot go in the same corner, but we can try to keep most of its performance with full Beneteau interior.
As said many times before, more than 90% od all sold 36.7 were sold with wheel, so we had to make that choice to simplify the project. Same goes for other topics, like bowsprit. We tested the concept of retractable sprit, even build the solution into one of SF3600 to prove it, but at the end realized it brings a lot of complexities to the boat that is not only racer. Both inside the cabin and on deck with extra anchor crane - because you need that on the cruiser. So, after several full curcles we went for short fixed sprit, that can house anchor. We will offer also longer version without anchor crane for those who wants to race, but this is another story.
Video... this is a raw (unofficial) video shot during the first few sailing attempts. I shared it with some friends, but apart from that it is an (copyright) issue and had to remove ... for now.
Last but not least - prices. This is crazy. We do not have any fixed (material) prices anymore, but we are told how much it will cost when the material is about to be shipped. We also follow the market prices and the competition raised prices up to 25% in the last year or two. Nobody knows where this will end, but clearly it is not under our control.
there is a lot of topics to address, so I'll try to generally cover them. If you want something specific, let me know.
Shapes&styling - we did not want to do something fashionable, because that shape will usually go out of style in a few years. Plus the boat must visually follow the brand styling that started with First 53. Modern classic they say. Some would say it is kind of boring but in the real life she has some style and looks good from different angles.
Conceptually this is a First, so it has to be performance cruiser. Habitable interior is just as important for majority of the potential Beneteau buyers that performance. It was our desire to push the performance to the level that can offer something different than competition. I think Sam, Pure and Seascape did a good job making the boat that looks like Beneteau but offers completely new sensations under sails - for performance cruisers that is. We never intended to attack Pogo, on the contrary, it was an inspiration what can be achieved and we looked at it as a performance benchmark. Obviously we cannot go in the same corner, but we can try to keep most of its performance with full Beneteau interior.
As said many times before, more than 90% od all sold 36.7 were sold with wheel, so we had to make that choice to simplify the project. Same goes for other topics, like bowsprit. We tested the concept of retractable sprit, even build the solution into one of SF3600 to prove it, but at the end realized it brings a lot of complexities to the boat that is not only racer. Both inside the cabin and on deck with extra anchor crane - because you need that on the cruiser. So, after several full curcles we went for short fixed sprit, that can house anchor. We will offer also longer version without anchor crane for those who wants to race, but this is another story.
Video... this is a raw (unofficial) video shot during the first few sailing attempts. I shared it with some friends, but apart from that it is an (copyright) issue and had to remove ... for now.
Last but not least - prices. This is crazy. We do not have any fixed (material) prices anymore, but we are told how much it will cost when the material is about to be shipped. We also follow the market prices and the competition raised prices up to 25% in the last year or two. Nobody knows where this will end, but clearly it is not under our control.
The complaints about price seem way off the mark to me. New designs that fit a market need (SF3300, Cape 31 etc etc) seem to be selling in greater numbers than ever before. No shortage of people with the right kind of cash that want to get out on the water, from what I can see.
floater
Super Duper Anarchist
jack jones
New member
Cant believe the negative comments about everything although I guess that is the nature of forums. too me it looks fantastic and apart from the draft suits me fine and I have had lots of boats/dinghies over 62 years of sailing. its not a stripped out racer but it offers high speeds combined with comfort. Anything that plans 2 sailing has to be good for fun and twilight social races along with competitiveness while full racing. I ordered mine through the local dealer back in Nov last year before the price was fixed and the specs were not clear. The purpose of the boat is just what I want and can't wait for delivery. Other people might have different desires in a boat.
As an aside on wheels versus tiller I have an replica 1889 herreshoff coquina that I built and steers with ropes to the rudder ie no wheel and movement is opposite to a tiller. Now that is not intuitive while steering and swapping between boats is tricky..
As an aside on wheels versus tiller I have an replica 1889 herreshoff coquina that I built and steers with ropes to the rudder ie no wheel and movement is opposite to a tiller. Now that is not intuitive while steering and swapping between boats is tricky..
Clearly I've not been on enough modern 36ft boats, because I'd have said that's seriously optimistic marketing talk.
But if you've done it you've done it.
Kudos.
floater
Super Duper Anarchist
see. that's the crowd you've got around here.
the cruisers.
the cruisers.
and the racers.
I've done 14 knots with my X-332 in that kind of wind
On flat water in the Swedish archipelago.
floater
Super Duper Anarchist
um. calibrated your knot meter recently?
