New Beneteau First 36

[Dalsgaard]

The overall concept of this boat reminds me of the Fareast 37r, but the fact that this got out of drawing board is cool. It seems as though Fareast didn't have enough people interested to start production. The Fareast missed the sweetspot for people who can actually afford them, they went too racey. Seems like the First 36 is a bit more cruisey and therefor appeals more to the people who can actually afford them.

I'd love to own a boat like this, as it ticks my boxes, around 35 foot, asym, can cruise and seems very fast, but I might need to rob the local bank.

I've had my eye on the X-35 for a while, but not sure how well it would do if you added a bowsprit.

 

[Knut Grotzki]

Some nice pics and a good read from Lars:

https://no-frills-sailing.com/walkthrough-new-beneteau-first-36/

Enjoy!

 

[bissona]

Some nice pics and a good read from Lars:

https://no-frills-sailing.com/walkthrough-new-beneteau-first-36/

Enjoy!

Great article. Pitches it really well as a properly comfortable fast cruiser. Love the galley area, great use of space.

Given the lack of sail storage I'd want headsail on a furler and a single A-sail or you'd have to give up a cabin. Think I could live with that compromise if I stuck to the odd coastal race. There's one on it's way to these waters soon, will ask for a test sail.

 

[floater]

that was a cool article. and @Matagi got a mention: "I´ve read some postings and articles of people saying that her appearance kind of bored them."  ;-)

 

[DingDong]

Great article. Pitches it really well as a properly comfortable fast cruiser. Love the galley area, great use of space.

Given the lack of sail storage I'd want headsail on a furler and a single A-sail or you'd have to give up a cabin. Think I could live with that compromise if I stuck to the odd coastal race. There's one on it's way to these waters soon, will ask for a test sail.

It is a great article - We were also in the Baltic yesterday and agree with all that Lars has said (thanks for including us in the saloon shot!) - the weather was truly foul!

The boat really has the 'wow' factor from the dockside and I think will age well. It looks and feels more like 40ft yacht.

Met with Andraz (CEO) and Tomo and had two hours chatting about the boat, ratings and racing. Absolutely cracking chaps with a real passion for the project - the creativity and attention to detail shines through.

The boat is perfectly suited for its purpose. Cockpit ergonmics are fantastic as are the below deck arrangements. Performance should be impressive and it looks like the perfect cruiser racer.

I suspect the boat will be an absolute runaway success and wish the Andraz, Tomo and Kristian all of the very best.

 

[Joakim]

The complaints about price seem way off the mark to me.

Maybe. But the price is very much higher than I would have expected for a First. It's about double the price of First 35 and probably even more than First 45 was, at least much more expensive than First 40 Carbon. So a totally new price class for a First and certainly not a boat for everybody.

Is it even cheaper than J/111?

It's a pity there are no longer any good reasonably priced C/R boats. Like Bavaria 35 Match (90 000 € 2005) or First 35 (120 000 € 2012), both including 24% VAT and quite good standard specs. E.g. X-35 was about double the price in 2005 compared to Bavaria 35 Match with similar configuration. Now as a second hand boat the difference is much smaller (e.g. 60 000 vs 90 000 €).

 

[floater]

perhaps it's senseless to complain about price. as they say, you get what you pay for.

 

[Snowden]

It's a pity there are no longer any good reasonably priced C/R boats.

You are almost certainly right that in inflation-adjusted terms, new boats cost more than they used to. It's not that surprising given trends in skilled wages, materials prices and the level of sophistication of these boats. 

I also think that manufacturers are competing with their own products on the second hand market more than they ever used to. The comparative stability we have had in rating rules over the last 20 years means that designs remain competitive on the racecourse for longer than they used to, and advances in manufacturing tech mean that a 10-15 year old boat can feel "box fresh" with only moderate expenditure.

Therefore, why build a bargain basement €150k 36 footer when the consumer can buy a 5-10 year old 40 footer for the same price? You need to come up with something innovative and that costs more.

 

[floater]

You need to come up with something innovative, and that costs more.

fify.

 

[Snowden]

fify.

If you want to play pedantry, your edit creates a comma splice. A semi-colon would have been better.

 

[floater]

idk. do you want to create something that costs more. or something that is innovative? I'll leave it up to you.*

*and clearly I'm no expert on punctuation. lol.

 

[Matagi]

If you want to play pedantry, your edit creates a comma splice. A semi-colon would have been better.

golf clap.

 

[Snowden]

idk. do you want to create something that costs more. or something that is innovative? I'll leave it up to you.*

*and clearly I'm no expert on punctuation. lol.

Fair enough - my post wasn't totally clear. What I was trying to say was that innovation costs more, and you have to innovate to get buyers' interest.

 

[floater]

here in California we have had probably two waves of notable boat production. somehow, back in the 70's, plastic production boats became so common that 100's - if not 1000's - were produced. So I guess they must have been relatively cheap. some of them sailed well and were built okay. but most were crude. the Cal 40 lives on of course.

then Santa Cruz put together their high-quality balsa cored boats. dozens or hundreds of these survive. and for the most part are highly prized still. But the builders all eventually went bankrupt. more or less.

your comment about the evolution of production boat design got me thinking about this. I suppose a J boat is similar to a Seascape - in terms of sophistication and quality? There aren't many manufacturers anywhere in the States that can really match what we see here.

 

[danstanford]

here in California we have had probably two waves of notable boat production. somehow, back in the 70's, plastic production boats became so common that 100's - if not 1000's - were produced. So I guess they must have been relatively cheap. some of them sailed well and were built okay. but most were crude. the Cal 40 lives on of course.

then Santa Cruz put together their high-quality balsa cored boats. dozens or hundreds of these survive. and for the most part are highly prized still. But the builders all eventually went bankrupt. more or less.

your comment about the evolution of production boat design got me thinking about this. I suppose a J boat is similar to a Seascape - in terms of sophistication and quality? There aren't many manufacturers anywhere in the States that can really match what we see here.

The underlying question would be why we don't have manufacturers building boats of this quality here? What is it about our manufacturing environment that prevents us from birthing and supporting such firms? 

 

[floater]

well. for one. it's a tough business. just ask Seascape.

and read the comments right here. folks simultaneously whinging about both "give me more" and "make it cheaper". my thought - seascape needs to focus on quality and let the price take care of itself.

 

[Crash]

The underlying question would be why we don't have manufacturers building boats of this quality here? What is it about our manufacturing environment that prevents us from birthing and supporting such firms? 

The simple answer is not enough demand to make a good business case.  For every one sailboat sold in the US, a couple hundred powerboats sell.  You wanna make money, you gotta build what folk are buying.

Next comes the fact that most sailboat building took place along the coasts, esp in the NE and California.  Not trying to comment in any way on politics here, but most of those states are more left leaning, and more aggressive on environmental regulations that exceed the federal ones...

The bigger question is why is there not enough demand for sailboats (as power boats are not necessarily any cheaper)? And that's multi-faceted.  Less free time and income relative to cost of activity - though again, lots of big motor boats still sell, but storage is generally cheaper (trailer or boatel) compared to wet slips...

Racing has gotten more expensive and more competitive (ie. less family casual racer friendly).  courses require greater team work, etc.   And if your racing in the less casual family mode, an older PHRF boat does just fine...so why pay for a new boat?

US Sailing in general has marketed sailing as a "lifestyle" activity - see almost any sailboat ad.  Older guy, younger wife, glass of wine, 12knot breeze on a sunny day.  Baskets and flowers in the main cabin.  Furling this, and Furling that, and powered winches, and refrigeration and a/c, and full enclosures have sucked all the upwind performance out of most "cruising" boats anyway.  I think we'd be better off marketing sailing as an adventure sport that the whole family can participate in, like backpacking or skiing...but nobody is asking my opinion

Bottom line?  We're to spoiled here in the US to buy the equivalent of a Ranger 26 or C&C 27 anymore...go to a boat show and the smallest "real" boat will be 32 feet with a in mast furling mainsail, full galley, refrigeration, etc, etc, etc...

It's sad really...

 

[jerseyguy]

I can afford one of these beasties. But at $300k+ (my estimate) to put one in club race/wed night beercan / occasional Mac race condition; I much prefer to leave my son (a far more serious sailor and racer than I ever was. He was a crew member for 15 years on a Farr 40 that won a class world championship) an inheritance and his daughters paid for college educations.  Other folks have different priorities. I hope Beneteau sells as many of these as they can produce.

 

[Matagi]

For the archives.

 

[badia420]

Guys, it is really worth it, the fun factor is at 100%!!