New Beneteau First 36

Epi-sailor

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Time to work on your Italian and become multilingual like the rest of the planet.   Subtitles for  “all y’all’s” that prefer merican. 

 

Matagi

Ambassador of the Republic of R'lyeh
Ok, first results for Bip Bip from Palmavela. Says nothing, of course, new boat. 

But I only now realize that we're talking of a low end ORC 2, not an upper end ORC 3 boat here. Hmm <_< .

Screenshot_20220520-075929_Chrome.jpg

Also: Mallorca apparently is the southernmost part of Germany.

 
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Gents, I was/am super busy and did not really checked the forums for a while... lots of good discussion and comments. If you have anything to ask, don't hesitate to ask directly to me. I will try to answer without the obligatory corporate filter ...

Some recap from all the questions above...

- Axxon carbon mast has dyform rigging, alu spreaders and exactly the same boom as Alu mast from Z-Spars.

- removable cockpit boxes: they are great for sitting and storing stuff during cruising but cockpit ergonomic without them is perfect for racing. Also... in the future, when we make the SSC version this will be a perfect sitting place for tiller steering. However, if you quote me on that I will deny I have ever said that :)

- boat just looks wide, however, it has surprisingly rounded and symmetric waterline with quite big overhangs, when the boat is stationary. I was very surprised about responsiveness and how the boat moves in light wind.

- production wise we are working on hull #5 that is going to be finished on July 15t. Hull #6 is planned to be delivered before end of August.  Not at the pace we would wish for but current situation regarding the supply is not really helping.

- ORC - current GPH is 585.

 
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In this hypothetical boat that doesn't exist, would you shoot for two tillers like the Sun Fasts 3200 / 3600?
strictly hypothetical, if we would do it, but we don't (at least for quite some time) we would use single tiller.... and equally hypothetical, why not using a vertical one like Code 10 is using ...

273273131_3688308747960683_3690460278649890713_n.jpg

 

Crash

Super Anarchist
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Either alot of linkages, or a lot of room under the cockpit taken up with tillers and cross link…

harder to fix/work on when something goes wrong.  Works for pure race boat.  Not sure it works for this model

 

Joakim

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 A comparable boat would be what?
IMX-40, Sinergia 40, Farr 30, XP-38, X-43, Elan 35 RP, First 40 etc would have about the same GPH depending on the keel and mast version and sail configuration.

X-35, Sun Fast 3600, JPK 1080 and J/122 E would be slower and X-41, A40 (RC or not) and J/111 faster.

 

Parma

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IMX-40, Sinergia 40, Farr 30, XP-38, X-43, Elan 35 RP, First 40 etc would have about the same GPH depending on the keel and mast version and sail configuration.

X-35, Sun Fast 3600, JPK 1080 and J/122 E would be slower and X-41, A40 (RC or not) and J/111 faster.
I obviously don't understand the ORC ratings system: with a quick look the closest boat I found to 585 was a J29 which at 584.1 appeared to rate faster than the BFSS36 (which must be a fuckup somehow!!) and now you're saying that under ORC the J122 rates slower than the 111? Maybe you meant 121 not 111?

It's confusing, hence the question.

 

Joakim

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I obviously don't understand the ORC ratings system: with a quick look the closest boat I found to 585 was a J29 which at 584.1 appeared to rate faster than the BFSS36 (which must be a fuckup somehow!!) and now you're saying that under ORC the J122 rates slower than the 111? Maybe you meant 121 not 111?
ORC is moving towards APH instead of GPH. You can still find GPH, but APH is the one printed first on the certificate. Both are seconds/nautical mile, but calculated for a different course, which makes APH much faster.

This http://data.orc.org/public/WPub.dll/CC/157626 J/29 has APH 598 and GPH 671.

I wrote too fast meant J112E not J122E.

 

Parma

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ORC is moving towards APH instead of GPH. You can still find GPH, but APH is the one printed first on the certificate. Both are seconds/nautical mile, but calculated for a different course, which makes APH much faster.

This http://data.orc.org/public/WPub.dll/CC/157626 J/29 has APH 598 and GPH 671.

I wrote too fast meant J112E not J122E.
Thanks. I'll look at it again.

 
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ORC is moving towards APH instead of GPH. You can still find GPH, but APH is the one printed first on the certificate. Both are seconds/nautical mile, but calculated for a different course, which makes APH much faster.

This http://data.orc.org/public/WPub.dll/CC/157626 J/29 has APH 598 and GPH 671.

I wrote too fast meant J112E not J122E.
I was trying to find references as to how the APH is calculated...but no reference (that I know of) on ORC documentation...any idea ?

 

Joakim

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I was trying to find references as to how the APH is calculated...but no reference (that I know of) on ORC documentation...any idea ?
It is quite similar to GPH, but uses all wind strengths with the distribution given e.g. here: https://orc.org/index.asp?id=33

So both are for the "round the island" (or "circular random") course with even wind direction distribution.

GPH is the average of 8 and 12 knots wind and is thus for rather light wind.

APH uses all the winds from 6 to 20 knots, with an average of 12 knots.

Actually GPH is a bit more complex than that, since it uses wind averaging, which is not used for APH. This makes boats clearly slower in light and medium wind. Maybe it is better not to go into details of wind averaging, since it is no longer used for anything else than GPH, which is shown just for comparison with old certificates.

 
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