New Beneteau First 36

It is quite similar to GPH, but uses all wind strengths with the distribution given e.g. here: https://orc.org/index.asp?id=33

So both are for the "round the island" (or "circular random") course with even wind direction distribution.

GPH is the average of 8 and 12 knots wind and is thus for rather light wind.

APH uses all the winds from 6 to 20 knots, with an average of 12 knots.

Actually GPH is a bit more complex than that, since it uses wind averaging, which is not used for APH. This makes boats clearly slower in light and medium wind. Maybe it is better not to go into details of wind averaging, since it is no longer used for anything else than GPH, which is shown just for comparison with old certificates.
Thanks Joakim, nice explanation !

 

MOB

New member
4
0
NL
I'm starting to like this one... It even made me activate a SA account (after lurking this forum for quite some time)...

In the search for a "performance" cruiser that would satisfy the family first and goes fast second. My short list for now is a Pogo 36 (passion) and a Dehler 38SQ (ratio), with 193cm (6'4") the latter will be more gentle on my skull, but who want's to be inside ;). Although different type of boats, the more spartanic Pogo is already approved as acceptable (How to Sell your Wife a Boat 101 :cool:), I probably also need to rob one last bank to fully spec the Dehler. From the specsheet the First 36 looks like a nice compromise between these two I guess.

Any comments on the provided Garmin gear for sailing ? Not a particular fan of B&G, just used to it, looks like the Garmin gear is slighty cheaper which creates some budget for new bikini's :).
 

Snowden

Super Anarchist
1,099
580
UK
Any comments on the provided Garmin gear for sailing ? Not a particular fan of B&G, just used to it, looks like the Garmin gear is slighlty cheaper which creates some budget for new bikini's :).

I used to be a fan (you can even read me praising it in this thread). But after a total N2K network failure two weekends ago leaving me without even depth gauge and several faulty logs (GST43) I would say go B&G for a new boat. Doesn't seem like the right place to save cash.
 

Matagi

Ambassador of the Republic of R'lyeh
Agree, not the place to save money.
Not sure I would order one right now, though. You'd spend two years waiting in line and pay a very high price.

Now given current inflation, this can go either way, but my gut feeling is that in two years time, prices for luxury items will be comparatively lower than they are now and production line slots will be much more available.

Will revisit this in two years ;)
 

MOB

New member
4
0
NL
To be honest, a compass, depth and log is what I really need. I like the plotters because it keeps my paper charts clean... It's more about my tech savviness I like all sorts of electronic equipment than it makes me a better sailor. I'm not in the illusion electronics (like a H5000) can compensate my ignorance & incompetence at the helm ;). So choosing B&G would be a "standard" combi of a Zeus and Triton, if I can save a couple of grant by electronics alone I'd rather spend it on extra/better sails.

So if the basics are "working" I'm looking more at things like visbility in direct sunlight, fast (touch) response, setting waypoints with a few easy "clicks", upgradable charts and integration with things like AP & radar. I also like the idea of having it all factory fitted by default, doing a complete system "aftermarket" would be a project on it's own with all the usual struggles and troubles.

But both your comments are appreciated and encourage me to really think this over, the wrong choice would last for years...

I used to be a fan (you can even read me praising it in this thread). But after a total N2K network failure two weekends ago leaving me without even depth gauge and several faulty logs (GST43) I would say go B&G for a new boat. Doesn't seem like the right place to save cash.

I did search for you post, the fun thing is that although it's all Garmin with the First 36, they provide an Airmar DST810 instead of GST43 by default, maybe they are already aware of "things" (I don't know). The 810 is also the default choice for B&G. Marine networks (n2k and the like) are funky things... :)
 

DingDong

New member
18
10
UK
Has anyone had delivery lately or know what hull numbers they have completed?

Regarding Garmin:

They have the best after sales technical support I’ve experienced. Apart from an AP ram (Jefa produced, Garmin branded) no issues with our system. Cheers
 

Movable Ballast

Anarchist
6,201
249
San Diego
I was told recently that they are up to hull #5.
The sail away price for this lovely but very expensive boat is giving me pause. Yes maybe wait for a while...
 
213
236
Hull #5 is being completed next week and hull #6 is well down the production line. Should go out after summer holidays. With several issues solved and optimized for easier production (also assembly toolings verified, corrected and verified again) we plan to go to 2 boats per month in autumn. Regarding Garmin, sure they are lower price, but you get the top mast anemo and the big mast displays. We did not like the pilot drive due to geometry constraints, so we are using Raymarine linear drive instead.
 

NitrousVic

New member
21
14
Greece
Hope all enjoyed summer vacations :)

Back to work now and preparing in advance the small details and arrival of my beautiful First 36, for the blue crystal clear waters of Greece.

After talking with AXXON regarding the carbon mast, I had a question regarding the main sail traveler cars and which type do they suggest.

Below is a picture showing what was suggested from the AXXON team.

IMG_5088 (1).JPG


1.jpg


But also looking at some other available types, as ball bearings seem more efficient and less prone to jam.

1662123974936.png



1662124443378.png



Does anyone have any experience from main sail cars with ball bearings? like for example the ones from Ronstan above.
 

danstanford

Anarchist
674
175
Lake Ontario
Hope all enjoyed summer vacations :)

Back to work now and preparing in advance the small details and arrival of my beautiful First 36, for the blue crystal clear waters of Greece.

After talking with AXXON regarding the carbon mast, I had a question regarding the main sail traveler cars and which type do they suggest.

Below is a picture showing what was suggested from the AXXON team.

View attachment 538392

View attachment 538393

But also looking at some other available types, as ball bearings seem more efficient and less prone to jam.

View attachment 538399


View attachment 538407


Does anyone have any experience from main sail cars with ball bearings? like for example the ones from Ronstan above.
They work great until you go to take them off the track whereupon, in my experience, you need to insert a piece of track to retain the ball bearings in the car or they will pour out of the track. Perhaps there are cars where this does not happen but it is a pain to do when needed.
 

Parma

Super Anarchist
2,990
396
here
Does anyone have any experience from main sail cars with ball bearings? like for example the ones from Ronstan above.
If it were me, and unfortunately it's not, I'd be thinking about the extra weight aloft of a bunch of cars w/bearings vs. w/o bearings.

I'm sure it's going to be an awesome ride.
 

fufkin

Super Anarchist
They work great until you go to take them off the track whereupon, in my experience, you need to insert a piece of track to retain the ball bearings in the car or they will pour out of the track. Perhaps there are cars where this does not happen but it is a pain to do when needed.
To add to that...

I use the Harken system which I really like. Some choose to keep the cars on the track semi permanently and detach the sail from the cars for stowage/repair.

My battcar are sewn to the sail. Upon removal I immediately wrap each car in plastic sandwich wrap to catch loose bearings during stowage or folding. It is helpful to have a bucket below the track exit point to catch loose bearings. It is way easier and faster if one person removes and holds the car bearings up while the other tightly wraps the cars.

Whatever you do, don’t let this happen (pic below)and always replace bearings to the point that you have a half bearing size gap in the chain. Sailing with missing bearings, especially higher up the mast, can result in a bad jam. I keep a couple bags of spares on board at all times to deal with the inevitable, especially during spring commissioning.

C5B195FD-B27C-4BB1-B066-6FC6A2B6B43D.jpeg
 

floater

Super Duper Anarchist
4,933
795
quivira regnum
would it be a stretch to say that having loose ball bearings in your batt-cars is simply not sea-worthy? after all. AXXON themselves suggest using Selden.

if you have to pull your main down at sea - for example in a short handed race - do you really want to worry about ball bearings bouncing around on the deck. seems insane frankly.
 

danstanford

Anarchist
674
175
Lake Ontario
I have an insert in the track so you can pull the sail down all the way to the bottom. The sail does not flake as nicely as it it was free of the mast but it is just fine with the sail cover on it and still connected by the cars.
 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
62,224
5,458
De Nile
I have an insert in the track so you can pull the sail down all the way to the bottom. The sail does not flake as nicely as it it was free of the mast but it is just fine with the sail cover on it and still connected by the cars.
You have avoid ball bearings entirely with a tides marine track, but some in the tropics find its useful life is limited and it’s failure more more catastrophic than the loss of a single car
 
I was at the Seascape yard today to discuss the ongoing issues on my F27 and had the chance to see both the F27 and F36 in build. The build in the F27 is impressive but the build on the F36 is on a different level with most work in-house. And it's looks much bigger than a 36. The purchasers of this boat are very lucky folk indeed. Way above my pay grade though 😀. And great to see the passion in the team there.
 

MPongs

New member
was wondering if anyone has had water time with the B36?

Am curious as to
1. upwind performance. Is the hull shape a more all around or more towards downwind?
2. Stability? is it pretty stiff? I was expecting a higher ballast to displacement ratio, but perhaps not necessary? Would this boat be competitive 2 handed?
 




Top