New Beneteau First 36

[floater]

Attention to detail is superb - Yachting World review…..

never seen a boat reviewer quite so excited about a boat - he literally climbed into the aft locker and stayed there awhile. didn't somebody want to know how the steering mechanism worked? this is by far the best look at the boat so far imo - although they never really get to light it up. and watch out for special cameo's by Manuard grinning ear-to-ear (is he living the life or what?) and Andraz demonstrating use of the second head.

but hints toward a future (and lighter) Seascape edition. perhaps minus timber below - plus tillers. maybe when people stop buying it as is? 2030? ;-)

 

[Qingdaosog]

I visited Ljubljana to discuss the issues with my boat and plan the solution. I was really impressed with the efforts being made to build the First 36. Virtually all in house by a passionate team . (As was the quality of the build of the First 27 which cheered me up.) Ljubljana is a little gem too. I recommend a visit if you are ever in that part of the world . Its a nice train ride from Munich through the Austrian alps

 

[Chucky]

Haven't seen one. Playing around with ORC data and comparing to something like a First 40 you might expect it to be in the high 1.06x / low 1.07x range?

ORC sailboat data

Any results of this boat racing in ORC yet?

 

[NitrousVic]

Sounds like he doesn't like our First 36

https://interestingsailboats.blogspot.com/2023/01/2023-dusseldorf-first-36-pogo-36-j112e.html

"I don't understand how such a flawed 36ft cruiser (by the inadequacy of its head for cruising) can have won the award, even if they loved the way it sails."

 

[Parma]

I thought the folding washbasin was a ratings play.

 

[42 South]

I would have to say that the forward location of the heads, its small size and that unuseable wash basin (particularly in anything but at anchor) is a very poor design decision.
Having the heads so far forward means that in any sort of sea-way the comfort and safety of crew in such a situation would be of significant concern, particularly for female crew having to use the heads.
I also do not like the centrally located fridge which severely limits the access to and from the forward part of the cabin and being able to move sails around.
I must admit to being somewhat biased though as this design is clearly akin to our own 11 year old boat in most respects.

 

[Snowden]

I must admit to being somewhat biased though as this design is clearly akin to our own 11 year old boat in most respects.

With respect, this boat displaces a ton less than your Dufour 360 and carries more sail area. They wouldn't race in the same class, I doubt their IRC numbers even begin with the same digit.

 

[42 South]

With all due disrespect, I am not comparing IRC numbers, but the general design and layout of the boat where there are many similarities.
I can't actually find any IRC rating for the Bene 36, presumably because they will first be rated in the coming northern hemisphere summer. Phil Sharp's race in the SilverRudder was not handicapped.
The 36e rating is 1.029 (2017 year), and a fair bit of that extra weight is actually in the bulb/torpedo keel where it aids stability. The 36e was probably not promoted as a race winning boat at the time of launch and was focused more on the cruising market, but ours had been optimised with a modified rudder and a full Norths wardrobe. Without going into details it perfomed better than a J112e and an Elan S4 in the local racing here.

 

[Zonker]

Probably this need a standard replacement after X working hours or X years. I will ask directly Yanmar for their suggestion, if not stated clearly in the 3YM30 engine's manual.

For the mixing elbow I'd say the average lifespan of these is about 5 years, give or take. Really depends on water temperature + hours of use.

I would have to say that the forward location of the heads, its small size and that unuseable wash basin (particularly in anything but at anchor) is a very poor design decision.
Having the heads so far forward means that in any sort of sea-way the comfort and safety of crew in such a situation would be of significant concern, particularly for female crew having to use the heads.

How many boats in the past 3 decades have had the heads there? It's not as easy as a further aft head but it's not a showstopper. And come on "safety"?

Hold on when you're seated or standing.

 

[bridhb]

Hold on when you're seated or standing.

Seated...especially if you are the one cleaning the head.

 

[bissona]

I would have to say that the forward location of the heads, its small size and that unuseable wash basin (particularly in anything but at anchor) is a very poor design decision.
Having the heads so far forward means that in any sort of sea-way the comfort and safety of crew in such a situation would be of significant concern, particularly for female crew having to use the heads.

I’m guessing the designer was told there needed to be accommodation for 6 (as that’s a full crew compliment for racing) and a head, but didn’t want to go for the SF3600 solution of an open head in what is really the sail compartment. The SF3600 solution just about works because the boat has few/no cruising pretensions, but with the F36 being marketed as a ‘cruiser that can race’ you really need a head with more privacy.

Have to agree about the fridge in the companionway though. I can see that getting right in the way during sail changes, likely to be bashed around badly. Fantastic for when cooking though, so swings & roundabouts really.

 

[Kristian Seascape]

Sounds like he doesn't like our First 36

Always love to read a good rant, especially if the topics are personally biased and easy to defend.

 

[Snowden]

With all due disrespect, I am not comparing IRC numbers, but the general design and layout of the boat where there are many similarities. The 36e was probably not promoted as a race winning boat at the time of launch and was focused more on the cruising market, but ours had been optimised with a modified rudder and a full Norths wardrobe. Without going into details it perfomed better than a J112e and an Elan S4 in the local racing here.

Sounds like I misunderstood what you were trying to say, apologies.

There was an interesting market comparison chart (for SA/D and accommodation footprint) in one of the early marketing decks which illustrates well the relevant boats in this LOA range.

The beginning of something new |

 

[42 South]

How many boats in the past 3 decades have had the heads there? It's not as easy as a further aft head but it's not a showstopper. And come on "safety"?

Hold on when you're seated or standing.

This view is from personal experience in the 1998 Sydney Hobart. One of our crew suffered concussion in attempting to use the heads located in the forward part of the vessel.
We also had a Bene 44.7 that had two heads and crew would never use the fwd heads when at sea - much easier if access is just near the companion-way.

 

[Zonker]

Yeah the '98 Sydney Hobart was not exactly typical weather was it?

Huge waves = hold on when you are below decks moving around or seated. One hand for wiping, one for holding on. Legs braced against the compartment sides.

If it's that violent a motion you do have to be super careful.

 

[Crash]

This view is from personal experience in the 1998 Sydney Hobart. One of our crew suffered concussion in attempting to use the heads located in the forward part of the vessel.
We also had a Bene 44.7 that had two heads and crew would never use the fwd heads when at sea - much easier if access is just near the companion-way.

All boats are a compromise. Prior to the 1990's almost all racing yachts under 50 ft had the head forward. Could they have brought the head aft? Sure, but that would have compromised either an aft cabin, or the Nav Station, or the galley or the salon. There's no free lunch here. Not everyone will like that compromise, but personally, it doesn't bother me at all.

Plus, minus an extensive study, with lots of boats, and a control group, it's really, really hard to say (scientifically) that the cause of the concussion was solely due to the forward location of the head...At the same time, scientifically, there is no way to conclude the concussion wouldn't have happened had the head been aft....

 

[steele]

I think the fridge in the center is ok, it allows the use of the fill in board to add counter space when using the galley. Most boats like this have no space for food prep so it is a reasonable solution that also allows movement forward on either side under sail. I do think the wood fiddle on top will be beat to hell in half a season, GRP would have been better.
I am puzzled by the lack of a 2 cabin option. Storage is about the same overall, but a pure storage space allows access from the cockpit for bulky and wet items like sails, or a collapsed inflatable while in cruise mode.
Not sure what to think about the head without seeing it in person. It looks tight for a boat that has other cruise amenities like an oven, fridge, windlass, and on the test boat forced air heat and hot water. I suspect the commitment to a 3 cabin layout and cost containment restricted the option of a larger aft head. If having one layout keeps costs down it may be a reasonable compromise, proven if they have sold 50.

 

[floater]

I was told a smaller head actually safer - as you can wedge yourself in. makes sense to me - but then all the heads I've ever used at sea have been tiny - and wedgable.

 

[Parma]

Whenever there is a traffic jam of people or sail bags it occurs at the companionway. Having the head forward provides more space here and allows people & bags easier access past each other.



Having the fridge right there at the base of the companionway kind of countermands that, but on a boat that wide at any steeper angle of heel it’s nice to have something to brace yourself against: having grab rails on the roof can help but when you need your hands free to work on something (that never happens, does it) being able to brace yourself is very helpful.



As far as the size of the head goes, well I’ve never been a bathroom guy and agree with those who say they probably don’t even need a sink, there’s one of those in the galley. After 15 years of ownership the only thing I’ve ever done with the sink in the head on my boat is clean the oxidation off of the fixtures in it.

 

[Snowden]

agree with those who say they probably don’t even need a sink, there’s one of those in the galley

Yuck!