New Beneteau First 36

[Parma]

I was more in awe of that trick boom.

It sort of adds unofficial sail area upwind & down

 

[Monkey]

Yeah, I saw that too. Best guess is anti- chafe upwind or on a drop, maybe to get the sail skirted or help get the spin aboard more easily? Something like that.

Correct. They’re just carbon tubes over the wire. Helps the kite roll over the lifelines on sets and douses. Fairly common on the big boats that do the crazy string drops. 

 

[floater]

... Sam is not designing interior, Lorenzo Argento and GiGo Design did that.

Understood. Instead of just picking a single design house, it seems Beneteau put together their own team for this project. Hard to imagine a better team really, at least on paper. For the sake of comparison, here is a worthy boat. the Italia 9.98. 

The race version < 10,000 lbs. The cruise version > 10,000. But this boat is only 34'. I guess GiGo have their work cut out for them to assemble a 36' that might resemble the cruiser, but weigh-in like the racer.

Racer: 

Cruiser:

Apparently the cruiser gets an oven , the racer just a cooktop. But otherwise I suppose the interiors look pretty much the same (and just four modules - or maybe five? joking  But one detail does stand out - two wheels vs. a single tiller..

 

[HypnoToad]

Circus Bear!!!!! 

 

[Swimsailor]

Understood. Instead of just picking a single design house, it seems Beneteau put together their own team for this project. Hard to imagine a better team really, at least on paper. For the sake of comparison, here is a worthy boat. the Italia 9.98. 

The race version < 10,000 lbs. The cruise version > 10,000. But this boat is only 34'. I guess GiGo have their work cut out for them to assemble a 36' that might resemble the cruiser, but weigh-in like the racer.

Racer: 





Cruiser:





Apparently the cruiser gets an oven , the racer just a cooktop. But otherwise I suppose the interiors look pretty much the same (and just four modules - or maybe five? joking  But one detail does stand out - two wheels vs. a single tiller..

The new Italias look amazing and have proved to be great race boats.  

According to their website the cruiser adds about 150 lbs to the boat.  The one they use for promo in Miami has a nice blend of the two...oven and wheels but no cabinets or salon seatbacks.

 

[floater]

The new Italias look amazing and have proved to be great race boats.  

According to their website the cruiser adds about 150 lbs to the boat.  The one they use for promo in Miami has a nice blend of the two...oven and wheels but no cabinets or salon seatbacks.

so, no 40lb CQR hanging off the nose? lol.

 

[Swimsailor]

so, no 40lb CQR hanging off the nose? lol.

Makes close port/starboard crossings way more fun!

 

[Amati]

Funny you mention the U20.... its our 'fun boat', and the one we jump on for simple sailing pleasure and speed. 

I've owned 4 racy/cruisy boats in the 30s, and the next one has to plane, and do so under non-hero conditions.

Makes me wonder what Catalina might pull off with the Ultimate designs /  boat molds with Jim Antrim and Jeff Canepa involved.  Kind of a Bene Ocean / First approach.  Catalina / Capri?  (They did the 13, which was  a pretty good planing machine, went upwind pretty well too….IIRR…)

 

[Amati]

You’re confusing two rudders with two wheels. 

Although…… if each wheel controlled one rudder, and when you pulled the wheel back, that rudder retracted……. :lol:

No Ackerman geometry needed!  Although it would get sporty if both wheels got pulled back at the same time.  :lol:

 

[Swimsailor]

Makes me wonder what Catalina might pull off with the Ultimate designs /  boat molds with Jim Antrim and Jeff Canepa involved.  Kind of a Bene Ocean / First approach.  Catalina / Capri?  (They did the 13, which was  a pretty good planing machine, went upwind pretty well too….IIRR…)

View attachment 459915

They had a chance with the 275 but that was a major disappointment.  They make too money with floating condos to give a shit about performance boats.

 

[Amati]

They had a chance with the 275 but that was a major disappointment.  They make too money with floating condos to give a shit about performance boats.

I don’t know what the design/build politics are over there now.  I did like the 13 a lot.  When I was a lad, down in the south sound, Catalinas were considered a hot boat.  Things change….

 

[Jackdaw]

Makes me wonder what Catalina might pull off with the Ultimate designs /  boat molds with Jim Antrim and Jeff Canepa involved.  Kind of a Bene Ocean / First approach.  Catalina / Capri?  (They did the 13, which was  a pretty good planing machine, went upwind pretty well too….IIRR…)

View attachment 459915

Well, the class IS looking for a builder... or at least someone to store the molds.  Funny enough, I had an email exchange with JA yesterday.

 

[Amati]

Well, the class IS looking for a builder... or at least someone to store the molds.  Funny enough, I had an email exchange with JA yesterday.

I’ve really bought my last boat, but I can’t help but wonder what a U20 would be like as a single hander rigged something like this below (wouldn’t even need the swing keel, or dual rudders, but a catboat with an articulating sprit, deck mounted assym tube, slightly smaller spinnaker…) 

 

[Matagi]

View attachment 426505

There was this very nice discussion on something like that, also something I could see for myself in the future. XP 20 also close to that idea.

Very far from a Bene 36, of course

 

[JMOD]

and the 112e won there and in 2019 as well. which is pretty good for a pretty much stock boat with a carbon rig addition. all of the stuff on the boat can be standard be ordered at Jcomposites 

 

[DingDong]

The only place a Beneteau is ever going to be competitive is in a one design race against its sisters.

Built to a price everytime.

Take all the money that goes on marketing, there isn't much left to build a racer.

Build it heavy, much easier than engineering a strong design.

Make it comfortable and keep the speed down so it doesn't get too wet or shake you up too much.

Keep the keel fairly short, Bene owners seem to hit the bottom quite a lot.

A gloriously, gloriously cunty reply - I sail an F40 double handed - love the big BOI telling us that Bene sailers can’t navigate! We aren’t winners but we love sailing. Sailing partner and I looking into an F36 but I now bow to your incomparable knowledge - such a near escape!!

 

[Monkey]

A gloriously, gloriously cunty reply - I sail an F40 double handed - love the big BOI telling us that Bene sailers can’t navigate! We aren’t winners but we love sailing. Sailing partner and I looking into an F36 but I now bow to your incomparable knowledge - such a near escape!!

I’ll admit, not the best result, but I thought we did ok with our little Benny 10R against the big budgets, but it seemed like a respectable finish. 

 

[apophenia]

People that think it looks a bit plain or boring have to remember where it must sit in the Jeanneau-Beneteau universe. With the 3300 and new 3700/3800/3900 in the pipeline which take up the more aggressive end of the scale, the First must be more of the cruiser/racer rather than racer/cruiser/irc racer that the Sunfasts are. I always thought the new mid 30s First would be more like a Grand Soleil 34. Despite all this expect to probably see one turn up in the next Transquadra race

I've been wondering if the First 36 is the new 3700/3800/3900, particularly given the note that interior area should be comparable to a First 40.1. If not, then Beneteau Group must see a lot of market opportunity in the fast-yet-somewhat-cruisy mid 30s space.

Given the Seascape legacy, I expect a boat that actually delivers on the promise of the Santa Cruz 37 and can handily beat a J/125 on handicap.

Even the non-SE edition Firsts seem to be crazy powered up.

 

[Swimsailor]

but I thought we did ok

And to think you probably didn't even run aground!

 

[Monkey]

And to think you probably didn't even run aground!

And the keel has never even fallen off!